Sexual discrimination/equal pay issue

hedger

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Like I said Hedger...

The selection is nearly always pretty much done before notice is even given.

yeah but is it done before the assessments have been done?
think it shows that she was hand picked and no consultation or fair criteria was applied (of course we knew that all along)

hundredk

hedger wrote: »

yeah but is it done before the assessments have been done?
think it shows that she was hand picked and no consultation or fair criteria was applied (of course we knew that all along)

There's rules, regulations, laws and long threads like this but when it comes down to it in the real world, selection is often done before criteria is set or applied. In fact the criteria is often written so that the staff they want to keep objectively come to the top:eek:. Of course that wont be admitted but doesn't stop it being true. Sorry:(

1984ReturnsForReal_2

hedger wrote: »

yeah but is it done before the assessments have been done?
think it shows that she was hand picked and no consultation or fair criteria was applied (of course we knew that all along)

Like hundredk said.

Yes, its mostly worked out who they want out before its even announced.

Pete111

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

Like hundredk said.

Yes, its mostly worked out who they want out before its even announced.

Couldn't agree more - this happens in 90%+ of cases of selection

However if pushed (ie at tribunal), the company also needs to be able to show that they have done things objectively and followed a resaonable process etc etc.

I think what Hedger is pointing out here is that the chain of events (as written) give weight to their argument that a fair & objective process was not followed. Businesses need to be careful to keep things watertight when doing redundancy selection - especially when you have an employee who is kicking up a fuss - and the company has (once again) left a potential gap to be exploited.

P

hedger

the redundancy appeal hearing was 2day. very interesting to say the least. a senior Unite guy was present with my wife and said he has never witnessed such a shambles of a redundancy process. it wud take me 2 hours to put down all that went on. the MD was lost and squirming with embarrasment, the HR manager was shown to be lying thru his teeth and had to be told 3 times to keep quiet by the MD cos he was digging the hole deeper and totally contradicting what is supposed to happen in a redundancy process and the companys procedures.

some of the points:
the MD started asking why my wife didnt do the diploma! she said she was turned down for it he asked by whom - "you!" - at least that what the director told her. "I was never asked about it?" the truth is the MD was never asked and she was lied to by the director. "so why did my director lie to me? why would he do that? would it be something to do with me querying my pay?" "we will take advice in this. point noted"

the scoring process has been shown to be totally subjective and no reflection whatsoever on my wifes performance. eg Presentation skills 3 out of 10 - "so how many presentations have the assessors attended to arrive at that score?" "er none" "so how was the 3 out of 10 arrived at?" "dunno" "why was she assigned the task of training the trainers and providing by far the most presentations in the dept if communication was 3 out of 10? and why does her appraisals show high scoring in presentation skills?" "point noted"

"why was i refused the criteria and had to ask 4 times to see my scores? why can I not see my colleagues scores?" "data protection reasons" total and utter nonsense. "are you refusing to show me other colleagues scores even with names blanked out?" "we will take advice on this"

the MD "so you are leaving us this wednesday, just wanted to wish u good luck and thanks for your work over the last 4 years" "er this is an appeal. even if I am not goin to be re-instated at least pretend the process is bein followed!" the Unite guy was in kinks at this stage

the equal pay issue reply is "being drafted" - think that means its in the hands of their solicitors. this one will run and run....

PaulLuke

I've been following this thread since it started but only now felt obliged to comment.

Hedger, good luck in getting a satisfactory outcome but be warned it may not be easy. It took my wife the best part of two years to finally settle a claim where she was chosen for redunancy shortly after her boss became aware she was pregnant. The process that was followed in that case was somewhat dodgy (i.e. selecting her over a colleague who was on a final written warning, failing to produce a selection matrix of any sort).

We finally settled two days before the tribunal hearing was scheduled to take place and found it an extremely stressful process (although it was aided somewhat by an in-depth knowledge of employment legislation from the outset).

hedger

PaulLuke wrote: »

I've been following this thread since it started but only now felt obliged to comment.

Hedger, good luck in getting a satisfactory outcome but be warned it may not be easy. It took my wife the best part of two years to finally settle a claim where she was chosen for redunancy shortly after her boss became aware she was pregnant. The process that was followed in that case was somewhat dodgy (i.e. selecting her over a colleague who was on a final written warning, failing to produce a selection matrix of any sort).

We finally settled two days before the tribunal hearing was scheduled to take place and found it an extremely stressful process (although it was aided somewhat by an in-depth knowledge of employment legislation from the outset).

Hi Paul. i agree it is very stressful but tbh the most stressful part is already over (losing her job). To see the company squirming with embarassment yday has already made it worthwhile and she will see this through to the end

hundredk

hedger wrote: »

Hi Paul. i agree it is very stressful but tbh the most stressful part is already over (losing her job). To see the company squirming with embarassment yday has already made it worthwhile and she will see this through to the end

Come in this thread quite late so not read all posts. Is the appeal hearing with the employer or at tribunal?

What do you hope to achieve from an appeal against redundancy - reinstatement, more money or just satisfaction?

hedger

hundredk wrote: »

Come in this thread quite late so not read all posts. Is the appeal hearing with the employer or at tribunal?

What do you hope to achieve from an appeal against redundancy - reinstatement, more money or just satisfaction?

its at appeal with employer - no chance of being re-instated goin by the appeal concluding with the MD wishing my wife good luck in her future career (then sheepishly apologising when pointed out it was an appeal hearing) :rotfl:

hope to achieve more money and satisfaction and to hopefully expose (this has been prob achieved already) the director who deliberately went out of his way to unfairly dismiss my wife

Pete111

hundredk wrote: »

Come in this thread quite late so not read all posts.


Shame, you missed out on a lot of fun.....! (sort of)

All signs continue to point strongly to 'settlement via compromise agreement' Hedger.

Good luck as previously and well done in getting a union involved. That will increase the pressure given the comedy of Mgt/HR errors that is unfolding.

P