Orange..... just what's gone wrong ?

illuminate

For years these guys were the best in the market.

CS was excellent and staff were generally well educated and had a good attitude. Both on the phone and in the shops.

My contract ended late Jan and when I rung retentions re. a renewal I was told that if I did this the cost of my package would almost double.

So in February off I went to V/fone with a great new mobi and a excellent tariff after almost 5 otherwise happy years with Orange.

First problem..... without warning they cancelled my email address. (My previous address with O2 is still working fine after 5 years !)

Then they send me a settlement of account and all numbers on it to ring were to automated systems that kicked me off when I couldn't provide an Orange mobi number. This had been ported across.

So no option but to wait for a threatening letter as I know nobody on Orange.

Then closer examination of the bill revealed that they had charged me over £13 for providing the PAC code. I should have given them 30 days notice apparently. EVEN OUTSIDE OF CONTRACT. I was never told this. Though apparently its hidden somewhere in the T & C.... though if I've got no contract I've no idea where I'm supposed to look ?

What I was told was that the code would only be valid for 30 days. So this makes leaving with minimal fuss and expense a little difficult.

Now the number on the bill works and I ring them. Note... this is a 07xx number so I've no idea what this call will cost but its unlikely to be cheap.

There attitude..... tough.

"we will be sending you no more bills and shall pass this matter to a debt collecting agency. You can expect this to adversly effect your credit rating"

I never raised my voice, and don't think I demonstrated an attitude while talking on the phone.

Why this sea change with Orange ? What the hell is going on ?

Has anybody else experienced anything similar with them of late ?

(and should this threat be on the rants board?)

xycom1

The terms and conditions of network service are available on Orange's website (somewhere!) and in the back of your Orange phone user guide (the manual that came with your phone). They are supposed to notify you in writing of any incremental changes to the agreement.

The policies that they adopt, especially RE. PAC numbers and notice periods - is just because they can. I don't believe they intentionally do it to be difficult, it's just an undesirable consequence of them doing all that they can to maximise profit margins.

Edinburghlass_2

illuminate wrote:

(and should this threat be on the rants board?)

It might well end up there

virgo17

illuminate wrote:

Why this sea change with Orange ? What the hell is going on ?

Whilst everything that has happened to you has not actually happened to me, I also feel that Orange has become the least desireable network for the private user. It seems to be the case that Orange are not interested in private customers unless they spend at least £75 per month.

I have been with Orange since it was launched from the ashes of Hutchinson. Remember the Rabbit? Over the last 18 months, all the good reasons for being an Orange customer have been removed.

I am now working on moving my family and relations away from Orange over the next few months. It is ironic that it was mainly my recommendation that put them there in the first case.

Whilst this relative small amount of lost business may not worry Orange, the hidden side of my actions is that I am responsible for the procurement and maintainance of my company contracts. In May we shall move from Orange to Vodafone. This will be a total of 55 business handsets, each with a monthly spend of circa £150.


V.

pin

What's going wrong / what went wrong with Orange?

Basically since France Telecom bought Orange its gone downhill from then on.

Woby_Tide

whilst Orange have definitely gone downhill the fact is that you haven't read your terms and conditions at all and are now trying to fight against an issue that you have caused. It's quite clear on all Orange (and indeed I think you'll find every single mobile contract with the other networks) that contracts don't 'cease' after 12 months(what did you do previously, did the phone number die on the 365th day or did it continue?)

http://www.orange.co.uk/terms.html#2

2. your Contract and the Minimum Term2.1your Contract runs for at least the Minimum
For each Device you own, your Contract starts on the date of Registration and will continue for the Minimum Term and thereafter You have limited rights to terminate your Contract during the Minimum Term as described in Section 4.2.2what happens when the minimum term ends
After the Minimum Term ends, we will continue to supply you with Services as normal until your Contract is terminated in any of the ways described in Section 4.4. your rights to terminate this Contract4.1terminating your Contract after the Minimum Term
You may terminate your Contract to expire at anytime after the Minimum Term by giving us at least one month's notice. You are free to restore your Contract throughout this notice period, should you change your mind.4.2terminating your Contract during the Minimum Term
You may terminate your Contract before the Minimum Term has expired if you pay us:4.2.1all Charges that are due, plus4.2.2a lump sum equivalent to the total of all the monthly or other periodic Charges still remaining on your initial Minimum Term agreement (except in the circumstances set out in Conditions 4.3 and 15.1). You'll be entitled to a rebate of 5% of that total if you terminate your Contract up to and including the first day of the last month of the Minimum Term.4.3terminating your Contract because Orange has changed its terms
You may also terminate your Contract if we vary its terms, resulting in an excessive increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us telling you about the changes). However this option does not apply if:4.3.1we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; or4.3.2the variations we have made have been imposed on us as a direct result of new legislation, statutory instrument, government regulation or licence; or4.3.3the variation relates solely to an Orange Additional Service, in which case you may cancel that Orange Additional Service in accordance with Condition 15.1.4.4terminating your contract because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the Network
If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide Network Services, we will at our discretion either:4.4.1make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no extra cost to you, or4.4.2accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will refund any pre-paid Charges that have not been used up.4.5termination of your Contract by Orange
We may terminate your Contract immediately at any time in respect of any or all the Devices owned by you, in whole or in part, by giving you written notice if:4.5.1you fail to pass any credit assessments which we may reasonably consider to be necessary from time to time4.5.2you fail to pay any of your bills from Orange on time4.5.3we have good reason for believing that any information you have given us is false or misleading4.5.4you become insolvent within the meaning of Section 123 of the Insolvency Act 1986, or bankrupt, or make any arrangement with creditors or go into liquidation or become subject to an administration order or a receiver is appointed over any of your assets or if we have good reason for believing that you are unable to pay the Charges4.5.5in addition, we may terminate your Contract at any time after the Minimum Term has expired by giving you at least one month's written notice.4.6termination of your contract by Orange without written notice
We reserve the right to terminate your contract immediately at any time in respect of any or all of the Devices owned by you, in whole or in part without notice to you if:4.6.1we have good reason for believing that you have breached Conditions 6.4.2, 6.4.3, 6.4.4 or 6.4.5, 6.4.8, 6.4.9, 6.4.10, 6.4.11 or4.6.2you haven't complied with one or more of the terms of your Contract and do not correct the breach within 7 days of being asked by us in writing to do so.4.7termination and Line Two
Termination of your Contract for any reason connected with Line One will result in automatic termination of Line Two.

illuminate

Woby_Tide, whilst I am sure we all appreciate your expertise in Contract Law. I think you missing the point of my thread.

I never said it wasn't in their T&C. I'm just a bit miffed that at no point after I made it clear that I would not be renewing did anybody consider mentioning the fact that I was now on a new monthly rolling contract with all the implications that that would bring.

I would have expected that though paying a monthly charge, this would simply be charged pro-rata for any partially used month. Not an unreasonable assumption, though clearly an incorrect one. They wouldn't have lost out as you always pay in advance.

Besides all the above, the main observation was about an overall deterioration in their attitude towards us the customer. Especially as they seemed to have actually got most things right up to that point. And there are precious few large companies that you can say that about.

The unexpected de-activation of the email account is probably the thing that will cause me the most inconvenience.

mobilegossip

This thread here confirms that Orange dont care anymore about the average customer.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=162249

Woby_Tide

illuminate wrote:

Woby_Tide, whilst I am sure we all appreciate your expertise in Contract Law. I think you missing the point of my thread.

I never said it wasn't in their T&C. I'm just a bit miffed that at no point after I made it clear that I would not be renewing did anybody consider mentioning the fact that I was now on a new monthly rolling contract with all the implications that that would bring.

You didn't move onto a new monthly rolling contract. On the day you signed up to your contract you agreed to a monthly rolling contract with no implied end date. It's only condition was that the contract should run for a minimum of 12 months or if severed earlier you would be liable to pay for a minimum of 12 months service. The monthly rolling contract always had a 30 day notice period from day 1 onwards.

I appreciate Orange customer service has deteriorated considerably, I've left their contracts myself (maybe it's due to the volume of calls quibbling contract T&C's or wanting upgrades on relatively small monthly spending, who knows) but I don't see why this rant has started really, apart from the loss of email account (which again probably has some implied 'we can terminate this account at anytime for any reason, seeing as it's free' term.) I'd never class any email address as permanent unless you own the domain i.e. yahoo/hotmail could probably close accounts just as easily so always back up any important details or mails you may store in your account.


(Also if you ring the automated systems a few random presses of # or numbers soon puts you through to the menu and you can get through to disconnections that way)

redux

I agree with Woby_Tide. Although there are some other Orange general issues, it has always been the case, and quite clearly stated, that for any mobile contract with any network a 30 day notice period applies.

As for the email address - I really don't think you are entitled to surprise at this. You terminated the relationship with the company, so why should they continue service? Maybe you could have switched to payg to continue it.

avi_3

I was a happy orange customer, until now. But have taken the w800i offer from e2save. But not using sim. Use o2 as main provider.
Goodbye to orange.
I have moved atleast 10 of my friends away from orange to o2.