OH, holiday and debt

BitterAndTwisted

Everybody deserves a holiday but people who have savings are the only ones who should have one, really.

The idea that a person wold think that a family trip to Florida is viable when there's nearly ten grand of debt hanging around needs a slap, in my opinion.

I'd be scouring around trying to find alternative treats, like family days out spaced over several months so there's always a plan to make and something to look forward to on the horizon.

Errata

Sounds like you need to sort this out together. Marriage is about negotiation and compromise as well as being sensible. Perhaps you need to really talk the situation to death until you agree on a solution you can both live with. There's little point in him sticking his head in the sand over this and doing a toddler tantrum 'I wanna, I wanna'
Have you thought about doing a spreadsheet so he can see in black and white how things are and what can and can't be done?
Is it worth pointing out to him that although he could be run over by a bus tomorrow he could also live for many more years. At the moment he's stressed about the current circumstances. If you spend cash you don't have on a holiday in Florida the current circumstances will still be there generating stress and the added debt will add an awful lot more stress for quite a considerable time. Is this how he wants his life to be ?
Unfortunately we don't live in secure times, almost anyone can lose their jobs these days and the luxury of a debt for a very expensive holiday is possibly a luxury you don't need.

Oldernotwiser

Ending up with a broken marriage doesn't help anybody to pay their debts; rather the opposite, in fact!

belfastgirl23

The bottom line is that something somewhere has to change to make this happen.

So

Would you be able to get a PT job? Could your husband be with the kids while you do this?

would your husband be able to pick up more work?

Could the kids work?

I'd say think of things that might make you more able to go on holiday and start putting them to him as options. At the minute you're just a naysayer (sorry, I know exactly why but I'm just reflecting what he's hearing). If you can start giving him choices that make it more realistic then perhaps you as a family could start working on it.

I know it does put more pressure on you though in the short term.

Good luck!

dieselhead

I can really understand the mentality of living for the day, and its really tempting to fall back on it when things get tough, 'lets just have one big blow out and just do it, after all we might be dead tomorrow' but the thing is life isn't like that you may seize the day, but you will have to live tomorrow, the day after etc.

It sounds like your husband is being very selfish as he is adding to your stress, telling the children about the holiday knowing what he knows but won't accept is terrible.

Florida is incredibly expensive, but have you considered maybe going to euro disney that may be cheaper, perhaps you could get a last minute deal?

hvd

Errata wrote: »

Sounds like you need to sort this out together. Marriage is about negotiation and compromise as well as being sensible. Perhaps you need to really talk the situation to death until you agree on a solution you can both live with. There's little point in him sticking his head in the sand over this and doing a toddler tantrum 'I wanna, I wanna'
Have you thought about doing a spreadsheet so he can see in black and white how things are and what can and can't be done?
Is it worth pointing out to him that although he could be run over by a bus tomorrow he could also live for many more years. At the moment he's stressed about the current circumstances. If you spend cash you don't have on a holiday in Florida the current circumstances will still be there generating stress and the added debt will add an awful lot more stress for quite a considerable time. Is this how he wants his life to be ?
Unfortunately we don't live in secure times, almost anyone can lose their jobs these days and the luxury of a debt for a very expensive holiday is possibly a luxury you don't need.

What you've said is how I feel really. My husband isn't happy, I know that, but I cant see how we can do this without it making things worse. I dont want to go into details but there are private reasons why I cant work at least for the forseeable future so our income will stay the same. Sorry, I know that sounds a bit mysterious but it really doesnt matter why, just that our income isn't likely to increase. He already does a lot of hours at work and isn't able to do any more or get another job.

I know this is like a point in the road for him, it's not just a whim that he'll get over if he cant go. It'll just be another sign of how rubbish life is in his eyes. We'd have to go in the Summer holidays, children are primary age, not during school term, there's four of us.

I have written down what comes in and what goes out but I'll do a sheet for every month from now until next Summer so he can see how tight things are and I'll just have to hope he's not past caring. I'll also see if I can have a clear out and try to sell more on ebay. I could also try to cut our food bills down a bit as they are high I think.

belfastgirl, that's exactly how he sees me, as a naysayer which isn't helping our relationship but when I ask him how we can do this, he's not got any answers.

dieselhead, I think he's being selfish too but I dont think he's doing it deliberately, he's just so fed up that he's a bit at crisis point if that makes sense? When it's down in black and white, it seems a bit pathetic to say someone needs a holiday and if they dont get it, it'll affect them badly but I'm worried for him and for us as a couple as this is more than just a holiday in his mind I think. It's not Disney that is the main attraction, it's all of Florida.

Thanks for your thoughts and for listening to me.

Errata

Perhaps the sudden death of his friend has brought things to a head for him, sometimes that happens.

I think sometimes when the kids are just a few years oldd it can be difficult for parents to see that things won't always be like this. But things do change.

A hard lesson that some women have to learn is that they can't have it all - marriage, nice house, career, kids, something has to give. This is a lesson that men have to learn as well. Only the wealthy can afford a nice house, kids and expensive foreign holidays on one wage.
Your idea of writing down your outgoings and incomings is a good one. If I were in your shoes I'd be updating daily and showing it to him so the situation in black and white is in front of his eyes once a day.
I'm sure you've both made sacrifices to give the kids a good life, I wish there was an easy way for him to understand Florida is another sacrifice he'll have to make for the time being. I can't think of one.
Belfastgirl pointed out the danger of always being seen as the naysayer. There's another danger, and that's you becoming the mum to a third child - your OH.
Both of you have to work as partners in the family business to make it work.

Oldernotwiser

It sounds to me as if he's the one who's making all the sacrifices while you refuse to look at any of the alternatives, such as getting a job or being prepared to camp or house swap.

If you read back through this thread you'll see that you've refused to consider every single suggestion that's been made. It's perhaps not surprising that your husband considers you to be a naysayer.

(Just as an afterthought; if your reasons for not working are mental illness, have you considered applying for ESA - the new version of Incapacity Benefit? I can see that this could explain your situation and your negativity.)

hvd

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It sounds to me as if he's the one who's making all the sacrifices while you refuse to look at any of the alternatives, such as getting a job or being prepared to camp or house swap.

I have looked at the alternatives. We've talked about this at length, we didn't just have a quick chat before I posted on here you know. Where did I say I wasn't prepared to camp? I said 'it wasn't an option', that's because it's not an option for him. I said earlier that he didnt want a cheaper holiday, it had to be Florida, he has fixed ideas of what he wants to do, it's been in his head for years. I've already been through various cheaper ideas including getting Youth Hostel memberships for us all and travelling more cheaply.

Am I not allowed to have choices in all this? So what if I dont want to house swap, I've bent over backwards trying to accomodate his wants but I cant do things I'm not happy about. If I wasn't trying to at least think about this, I'd have said no as soon as he mentioned it and not given it another thought and I certainly wouldn't have posted on here.

What sacrifices is he making? He works, that's not a sacrifice, he was in the same job doing the same thing when I met him, so he'd be doing the same thing anyway. He doesn't even do the work in the house so it's not like he's having to DIY all the time.

If you read back through this thread you'll see that you've refused to consider every single suggestion that's been made. It's perhaps not surprising that your husband considers you to be a naysayer.

(Just as an afterthought; if your reasons for not working are mental illness, have you considered applying for ESA - the new version of Incapacity Benefit? I can see that this could explain your situation and your negativity.)

As for the last comment about how you can see that mental illness could explain my negativity and my situation, how dare you. My negativity is simply because there are no ways to come up with a solution that caters for everything, and I'm as fed up with our life as he is, only I'm the one that gets left to sort it all out, so dont you dare talk to me about my negativity. You've made assumptions that are wrong and you're out of line.

Oldernotwiser

hvd wrote: »

As for the last comment about how you can see that mental illness could explain my negativity and my situation, how dare you. My negativity is simply because there are no ways to come up with a solution that caters for everything, and I'm as fed up with our life as he is, only I'm the one that gets left to sort it all out, so dont you dare talk to me about my negativity. You've made assumptions that are wrong and you're out of line.

I haven't made any assumptions; I simply asked whether this was the case and offered help with claiming benefits if it was. There's nothing wrong with having mental health issues but I'm glad that this isn't the case for you.

Your post certainly read as if camping not being an option was your idea but if I've taken that the wrong way I apologise.

However, I do think that saying "What sacrifices is he making? He works, that's not a sacrifice" when you yourself don't work (for whatever mysterious reason!) is unreasonable and selfish in the extreme and I'm afraid you've lost all my sympathy by writing this. Nowadays women don't consider it's a man's responsibility to keep them and their children, they do their share, even if it's only part time when the children are very young.

As for "He doesn't even do the work in the house so it's not like he's having to DIY all the time." does it not occur to you to do it as you're not the one who's working (long shifts, I think you said!)? So he's supposed to work all hours and then come home and do DIY while you do, what exactly?

Words fail me. Good night.