Today's strike....

fran_from_willesden

Sigur wrote:

Lecturers are wasters who couldn't make it in the "real" world. They are already over-paid for the number of hours they do in a week, along with the huge amounts of leave and holidays they get.

They can go swivel.

If they are so intelligent, they can go do their 36 hour weeks, 25 days leave with no expenses and no paid travel in the private sector. See how long they last.

Oh come on. Wasters who couldn't make it in the real world, I don't think so. Without lecturers and the research they do this world would be a lot different. Are you a student?? Do you really think that everyone who has a degree would be where they are today without previous research and experience in relevant fields. Just because university holidays are months long, it doesn't mean that lecturers get the same amount of time off.

Would you rather someone not so intelligent researching a new medicine or disinfecting drinking water or treating wastewater?? I think not.

mistyarthur

They do get long holidays and quite often if they do the job for a couple of years they can re-use most of the material, but they do do a ver y important job and they get ppaid slightly less than if they were private for the fact they get the long holidays and the like.

[Deleted User]

People seem to forget that lecturers don't JUST do lecturing.. you've got to do research, manage PhDs/assistants, prepare course material, mark essays and exams.. along with a big stack of paperwork.

BTW, i use to work for a large university (working in bioscience) and these guys do not doss around doing nothing. I worked with world experts in aging; some of those guys were so clever it was scary. They could have earnt a packet working for pharmaceutical firms but they loved their work too much.

I kinda miss my 32 days off a year holiday.. but the pay sucked so much I moved to the private sector. 8 days off less a year but hey, I can now spend in 2 weeks on expenses what I was allowed to do in a year.

pjala

MercilessKiller wrote:

How come?

Personally I want to go to a lecture of decent quality, and go to practical sessions which are worthwhile, and come out of uni with an excellent degree and understanding of the subject.

Why does it matter to me what work the lecturers doing? Ok if I was the lecturer I'd be very unhappy, but I'm not. I'm just a student who's paying for an education..

Ok, to put it another way - Universities are wasting money and resources on admin and none lecturing duties. Lecturers don't mind not doing lectures because they know it's the hardest part of the job - so like any public body the group of people behind the teaching part gets to grow and grow.

Management structures in old and new universities are large and highly paid - and will therefore defend their pay and structures.

Don't confuse the lecturer in front of the class and what they get paid, with the management structures in the University. NATFHE is pushing for a basic level of increase for the lecturer in the class - the management can go hang.

Barcode

No seminars yesterday here at York, despite an e-mail being sent out - the night before I might add - and not everybody would check their e-mail - reassuring us that the philosophy department was teaching as normal. We were then sent an e-mail by our philosophy proff explaining teaching was going to be disrupted. So, total state of confusion.

MercilessKiller

Sigur wrote:

Lecturers are wasters who couldn't make it in the "real" world. They are already over-paid for the number of hours they do in a week, along with the huge amounts of leave and holidays they get.

They can go swivel.

If they are so intelligent, they can go do their 36 hour weeks, 25 days leave with no expenses and no paid travel in the private sector. See how long they last.

ALL of my lecturers used to work in high paid jobs relating to their study. For example my forensics tutor Bill Fone (getting on now) used to be involved in highly publicised court cases where he would be the forensic investigator etc.

Both my Java lecturers used to be Programmers but now given up as they're both getting on (i'd assume thats why..)

My Networking Tutor drove a ferrari into uni the other day. He looks only about 30ish.. but he's obviously getting his monies worth..

I havent seen one lecturer drive into work in an old banged out car, looking tired, stressed, hating life etc etc.

They all seem to be doing their jobs, and getting paid for it. Thats what life is.

melancholly

mistyarthur wrote:

They do get long holidays and quite often if they do the job for a couple of years they can re-use most of the material, but they do do a ver y important job and they get ppaid slightly less than if they were private for the fact they get the long holidays and the like.

there's a really big misconception amongst undergrads that the main aim of the university is to teach them - realistically, most income comes from research grants and from government research funding, based on the RAE, next one due in 2008. in many cases research productivity is seen as more important than teaching. lecturers have to provide good quality research to get rated on in order to keep their jobs - performance, payrises, promotion etc are all based on 3 categories: teaching, research and admin. holidays for staff are NOT the same as holidays for students - it is admitedly more flexible than in other professions, but we're talking 5 weeks a year, not 5 months!

i want a career in research - it's what i want to do, but to do this you need an undergrad degree (debt), a masters (lots more debt), a phd (stipend covers costs - and we're up to 7 years training so far!), postdoc jobs (all on short term contracts so putting down roots is very hard) then finally a lectureship. you need to constantly apply for grants to fund your research, carrry out research, try to write papers and get them published, teach (and in a lot of fields lectures get updated each year because research moves so quickly), do marking, supervise postgrad students, do admin jobs in your department (e.g. course organisation, set up open days, sit on committees etc), present work at conferences, etc etc etc.

it is very rare for the people in my (un-named!) department to work less than 9/10 hour days, and that's before going home and marking lots of work.

there is a whole side to the university that doesn't get seen as an undergrad student - for all this work, and also all the pressure that the RAE system brings, lecturers get paid a hell of a lot less than most other professions.

should also add that the NUS (apart from in cardiff i believe) supports the strike action by academic staff!


work in research is great - it's not the same as it was 20 years ago thanks to rapidly increasing numbers of students and RAE horrors, but the intellectual freedom is so valuable. however, i really think that a lot of the comments on here show a major lack of understanding of what life as a lecturer is like - some may get very public, well paid work outside of academia, but there are a lot of areas that aren't glamarous and just don't give those avenues.

(rant over sorry!)

mistyarthur

I never said they sholdn't strike, I supported them doing it!!! if they really felt it was necessary.
They do get longer holidays is all that I was saying and I do acknowledge that they do work for their money and most of them tend to write books and the like outside of the uni though.
In my dept. most definately they reuse material because the dates when they put it on the intranet has last years unless its a new topic perhaps I don't have a problem with it though, one lecturer told us he had been using the same slides for the past 5 years!!! If it's the basics then it will not change.

melancholly

mistyarthur wrote:

I never said they sholdn't strike, I supported them doing it!!! if they really felt it was necessary.
They do get longer holidays is all that I was saying and I do acknowledge that they do work for their money and most of them tend to write books and the like outside of the uni though.
In my dept. most definately they reuse material because the dates when they put it on the intranet has last years unless its a new topic perhaps I don't have a problem with it though, one lecturer told us he had been using the same slides for the past 5 years!!! If it's the basics then it will not change.

the rant wasn't really at anyone in particular - lots of comments on here seemed to view the work of a lecturer as a bit of a joker-job - i probably picked the wrong comment to quote - sorry!

Sigur_2

MercilessKiller wrote:

ALL of my lecturers used to work in high paid jobs relating to their study. For example my forensics tutor Bill Fone (getting on now) used to be involved in highly publicised court cases where he would be the forensic investigator etc.

Both my Java lecturers used to be Programmers but now given up as they're both getting on (i'd assume thats why..)

My Networking Tutor drove a ferrari into uni the other day. He looks only about 30ish.. but he's obviously getting his monies worth..

I havent seen one lecturer drive into work in an old banged out car, looking tired, stressed, hating life etc etc.

They all seem to be doing their jobs, and getting paid for it. Thats what life is.

I don't get your point, apart from maybe saying lecturers are overpaid?