paypal dispute item not received - buyer left feedback saying it'd been delivered!?!?

Cappuccino

Midnight_Tboy wrote: »

thanks everyone.

mini-panic over with.

the lady replied to me a little earlier, and was very apologetic....saying she was originally trying to raise a dispute with someone else, it had put my ebay list info to which she'd removed but obv not properly.

I'd been reading on claiming with post office too. I didnt actually realise that with regular first class posting (having the receipt of posting) that I could claim up to about £38 worth, so that might have had to been my route taken, but gladly it's all resolved now and she has closed the case.

Hmmm I sold a Tascam audio interface for £90 last Thursday, PayPal currently holding payments.

I sent it by first class recorded delivery last Thursday (12/3/2009). The RoyalMail site still says "item received by the post office" and no delivery information. When I phone Royal Mail's automated number I get "your item cannot currently be tracked" and no option to speak to an actual human being about it.

I have emailed my buyer 3 days ago asking if they received the item ok, and if they are happy with it can they please leave positive feedback asap.

- No reply from the buyer
- Ebay still withholding the funds (ofc)
- Doesn't seem a way to track the item beyond "item received at post office" even though I posted it recorded delivery.

Now I have learnt that the post office only "cover" up to £38 by recorded delivery, which seems a bit unfair especially if they are the ones losing or damaging the package. They are the ones responsible for looking after my package and they are the ones who should be buying insurance against losing it, not me!

I guess I will just wait a few more days - don't want to exploit the withheld PayPal funds with the 1p trick but since my buyer isn't replying and I can't track the parcel through Royal Mail things are getting more difficult!

FRUIT_SALAD

Cappuccino-

You should of really checked to see which postal service was best for an item worth as much as that. Unfortunately it will be your own fault if the item is lost and more expense will be coming out of your pocket but it is a lesson to be learned (shame so expensive!) Always check first and then send. I personally send expensive items special delivery! then the cust (whos paid alot) can recieve their item(s) the next day and also you have your back covered!

hope everything works out!

soolin

Cappuccino wrote: »

Hmmm I sold a Tascam audio interface for £90 last Thursday, PayPal currently holding payments.

I sent it by first class recorded delivery last Thursday (12/3/2009). The RoyalMail site still says "item received by the post office" and no delivery information. When I phone Royal Mail's automated number I get "your item cannot currently be tracked" and no option to speak to an actual human being about it.

I have emailed my buyer 3 days ago asking if they received the item ok, and if they are happy with it can they please leave positive feedback asap.

- No reply from the buyer
- Ebay still withholding the funds (ofc)
- Doesn't seem a way to track the item beyond "item received at post office" even though I posted it recorded delivery.

Now I have learnt that the post office only "cover" up to £38 by recorded delivery, which seems a bit unfair especially if they are the ones losing or damaging the package. They are the ones responsible for looking after my package and they are the ones who should be buying insurance against losing it, not me!

I guess I will just wait a few more days - don't want to exploit the withheld PayPal funds with the 1p trick but since my buyer isn't replying and I can't track the parcel through Royal Mail things are getting more difficult!

Firstly standard mail, which includes recorded only covers up to £36 and that includes the postage. It will go up though when the 1st class mail costs increase in April.

If you do try and withdraw your money and the item never arrives then you will only have to refund the buyer, and that is regardless of whether you have transferred it out of paypal or not. By trying the risky 1p trick you may make the buyer rush in a claim of non receipt to protect themselves.

You really just need to hope that your item is one of the few that gets a signature on receipt and that you cna prove delivery in case of a non receipt claim. I would also stop emailing your buyer, you may panic them into thinking that this is all dodgy and that you are pushing for a positive to get your funds even though item may not have arrived.

Cappuccino

FRUIT_SALAD wrote: »

Cappuccino-

You should of really checked to see which postal service was best for an item worth as much as that. Unfortunately it will be your own fault if the item is lost and more expense will be coming out of your pocket but it is a lesson to be learned (shame so expensive!) Always check first and then send. I personally send expensive items special delivery! then the cust (whos paid alot) can recieve their item(s) the next day and also you have your back covered!

hope everything works out!

Hi, certainly in future now I am aware of this I will send items over £40 by special delivery. I am sure Royal Mail have covered their backsides in their T&Cs. However, I don't agree that it's "my fault" if Royal Mail lose my item. From a moral point of view, I still think it's unfair of the PO to make their customers pay for insurance in case THEY lose or damage an item.
You are paying for a service. In virtually every other sector or type of service, if the company lost or damaged an item whilst it was in their care ,they would be legally liable to replace the full cost of the item.
Why do Royal Mail get special immunity? Are they not answerable to British Law or their customers? If they are the ones offering the service, they are the ones who should be paying to insure themselves against their mistakes, not their customers.
Regarding the item itself, I understand that Royal Mail aren't permitted to delivery a recorded delivery item without a signature (either at the door, or by the recipient collecting the item). So even if my buyer is a scammer, either they will get the item (and sign for it) or they will not get the item but with no signature. Either way I find it difficult to see how they could scam me by collecting the item and then not signing for it.
Quite annoying though I have sent quite a lot of items via 1st class recorded delivery, and I don't remember any one of them getting past the "item received at post office" stage. Thankfully all the items hitherto have arrived ok. For all I know the item HAS arrived ok - but my buyer hasn't responded to tell me one way or the other (I am not hounding them I just sent 1 message) and I can't track it.
Guess I will just wait 3 weeks and then mail PayPal asking for the money, assuming my buyer doesn't leave positive feedback or complain in the interim. Had another item for £20 money held, I have now had positive feedback but no funds released yet - any idea how long PayPal usually take? Or must I hound them with more emails?

custardy

interesting point of view
however given RM has many constraints put on it as a business then maybe we should price the services realistically
take away the obligations to deliver to every UK address 6 days a week for a set price
remove things like freebost for the blind etc

FRUIT_SALAD

Cappuccino wrote: »

Hi, certainly in future now I am aware of this I will send items over £40 by special delivery. I am sure Royal Mail have covered their backsides in their T&Cs. However, I don't agree that it's "my fault" if Royal Mail lose my item. From a moral point of view, I still think it's unfair of the PO to make their customers pay for insurance in case THEY lose or damage an item.
You are paying for a service. In virtually every other sector or type of service, if the company lost or damaged an item whilst it was in their care ,they would be legally liable to replace the full cost of the item.
Why do Royal Mail get special immunity? Are they not answerable to British Law or their customers? If they are the ones offering the service, they are the ones who should be paying to insure themselves against their mistakes, not their customers.
Regarding the item itself, I understand that Royal Mail aren't permitted to delivery a recorded delivery item without a signature (either at the door, or by the recipient collecting the item). So even if my buyer is a scammer, either they will get the item (and sign for it) or they will not get the item but with no signature. Either way I find it difficult to see how they could scam me by collecting the item and then not signing for it.
Quite annoying though I have sent quite a lot of items via 1st class recorded delivery, and I don't remember any one of them getting past the "item received at post office" stage. Thankfully all the items hitherto have arrived ok. For all I know the item HAS arrived ok - but my buyer hasn't responded to tell me one way or the other (I am not hounding them I just sent 1 message) and I can't track it.
Guess I will just wait 3 weeks and then mail PayPal asking for the money, assuming my buyer doesn't leave positive feedback or complain in the interim. Had another item for £20 money held, I have now had positive feedback but no funds released yet - any idea how long PayPal usually take? Or must I hound them with more emails?

i didn't mean it was literally your fault if they lost it because they shouldn't but it is your fault that you didnt look into the pricing list to see what they covered, the prices for special delivery isn't that much more, i'm also quite suprised they did not ask you what the value of the item was and that you would not be covered on that service for the value :huh:

Get a pamplet from the post office and it tells you the different prices for weights and things like that. i keep losing mine so i'm for ever asking.

Any emails you have sent to the cust, send a copy to your account then you have back up if it starts getting heated.

When i worked at Orange custs were always trying to scam you saying they hadn't recieved their phones when i could clearly see on my screen that they have signed for it!

custardy

FRUIT_SALAD wrote: »

i didn't mean it was literally your fault if they lost it because they shouldn't but it is your fault that you didnt look into the pricing list to see what they covered, the prices for special delivery isn't that much more, i'm also quite suprised they did not ask you what the value of the item was and that you would not be covered on that service for the value :huh:

Get a pamplet from the post office and it tells you the different prices for weights and things like that. i keep losing mine so i'm for ever asking.

Any emails you have sent to the cust, send a copy to your account then you have back up if it starts getting heated.

When i worked at Orange custs were always trying to scam you saying they hadn't recieved their phones when i could clearly see on my screen that they have signed for it!

speaking of Orange,i was surprised ot get my replacement handset (i lost mine ) sent out be recorded delivery

FRUIT_SALAD

custardy wrote: »

speaking of Orange,i was surprised ot get my replacement handset (i lost mine ) sent out be recorded delivery

Glad you have! it's not bad company just its very stressful, if i had a penny for every customer i wanted to punch down the line i'd be very rich :rotfl:

Cappuccino

FRUIT_SALAD wrote: »

i didn't mean it was literally your fault if they lost it because they shouldn't but it is your fault that you didnt look into the pricing list to see what they covered, the prices for special delivery isn't that much more, i'm also quite suprised they did not ask you what the value of the item was and that you would not be covered on that service for the value :huh:

Get a pamplet from the post office and it tells you the different prices for weights and things like that. i keep losing mine so i'm for ever asking.

Any emails you have sent to the cust, send a copy to your account then you have back up if it starts getting heated.

When i worked at Orange custs were always trying to scam you saying they hadn't recieved their phones when i could clearly see on my screen that they have signed for it!

IMO it raises quite interesting legal points. Just because they say they are not prepared to cover it, it does not mean they are not legally responsible for it if they lose or break it.

Certainly no-one at the post office enquired as to the value of my item or pointed out that I would not be "covered" if it was

Imagine the following scenario:
You take your car in for a service and repair. It is worth £10,000. The repairers take it for a spin to make sure it's repaired properly. In the process they have a crash and write the vehicle off. In their T&Cs they have stated that they will only be responsible for the first £3,600 of the repair, so they tell you that you just lost £6,400 worth of goods through their carelessness with nothing you can do about it because it was in the T&Cs.

I imagine in that scenario most of us would go ballistic and probably ensure some kind of legal action. Certainly if they said "well you have to pay us an extra £50 in case we trash the car" you wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry. That the repairers are taking fully responsibility for the item you are placing in their care and they if any insurance is needed it is they who have it is a fair assumption to make, and I don't think in those circumstances the car taking his car in for repairs would expect anything to the contrary in the T&Cs.

The post office is IMO exactly the same thing, just scaled down a little. I am just interested to know why they feel they are any different, and also whether anyone has actually questioned the legality of their losing or damaging an item in their care and only repaying part of the cost back.
I am no expert on law and so am probably wrong, just food for thought

FRUIT_SALAD

Cappuccino wrote: »

IMO it raises quite interesting legal points. Just because they say they are not prepared to cover it, it does not mean they are not legally responsible for it if they lose or break it.

Certainly no-one at the post office enquired as to the value of my item or pointed out that I would not be "covered" if it was

Imagine the following scenario:
You take your car in for a service and repair. It is worth £10,000. The repairers take it for a spin to make sure it's repaired properly. In the process they have a crash and write the vehicle off. In their T&Cs they have stated that they will only be responsible for the first £3,600 of the repair, so they tell you that you just lost £6,400 worth of goods through their carelessness with nothing you can do about it because it was in the T&Cs.

I imagine in that scenario most of us would go ballistic and probably ensure some kind of legal action. Certainly if they said "well you have to pay us an extra £50 in case we trash the car" you wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry. That the repairers are taking fully responsibility for the item you are placing in their care and they if any insurance is needed it is they who have it is a fair assumption to make, and I don't think in those circumstances the car taking his car in for repairs would expect anything to the contrary in the T&Cs.

The post office is IMO exactly the same thing, just scaled down a little. I am just interested to know why they feel they are any different, and also whether anyone has actually questioned the legality of their losing or damaging an item in their care and only repaying part of the cost back.
I am no expert on law and so am probably wrong, just food for thought

thats the strange thing only about a handful of times have i not been asked what the value is, i thought they were supposed to ask but this reminds me when i sent out a package to america (who was then going to send it to germany but obv thats nothing to with me) and no-one ever told me that i had to put a sticker on declaring what was in the packet incase the nice people at customs decide to rip it open. Needless to say it got to germany around feb and i sent end of dec. Quite miffed to be honest and the woman never left me feedback and sent me quite aggressive emails. grrr.

But you do raise a good point about RM, maybe you should go in next time with a parcel and ask? be one of those people who are there for ages holding the que up :P