Public sector monster needs to be tamed

Generali

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

Bloody hell, is this thread STILL chugging along!

Oh yes. It seems to have degenerated into a, 'all public service workers are overpaid scum'/'well I work a thousand hours a week as a [teacher/nurse/binman/Prime Minister] for 3d ha'penny and when I get 'ome father beats us to death'.

Of course the reality is there are some right old useless skivers and some hard working, talented people in both parts of the economy.

RobertoMoir

Generali wrote: »

Oh yes. It seems to have degenerated into a, 'all public service workers are overpaid scum'/'well I work a thousand hours a week as a [teacher/nurse/binman/Prime Minister] for 3d ha'penny and when I get 'ome father beats us to death'.

Of course the reality is there are some right old useless skivers and some hard working, talented people in both parts of the economy.

This always happens I think, the classic straw man in any kind of argument along these lines is to compare the best of one sector to the worse of the other as if that proves a point. The real issues are too complex to boil down to one simple problem with one simple answer.

bigheadxx

Just spent 24 hours at the mercy of the NHS with an ill child. What a joke!!

Appointment at 10.10am yesterday with out of hours doctor.
Next 30 min drive to another hospital.
Nurse induction at 12.00pm (asked all the questions that they have already got on the computer)
Waited 2 hours for doctor.
2.00pm doctor comes and asks the same questions.
Doctor and nurse dont actually agree on the medication but actually receives some at 2.30.

Wanted to go home but doctor said should stay in.

This morning waiting for 3 hours for doctor just to be discharged. Just got home now. The nurse this morning didnt even know how to hold the inhaler!!! and they are insistent that he received steroids yesterday but he didnt.

Plenty of nurses on the wards busy doing nothing.
WHy are doctors treated like lords, in any other country you would be seen immediately.
Unless you encountered the inefficiency, malaise, ineptitude you would not believe it. It is a disgrace.

We have thrown billions at this service in the last ten years and has it improved? No. The service is appalling to what it was in the past and it is a disgrace what this government has done. How can it make rational decisions for the good of the country when it will not do anything to upset the public sector unions that pay for its propoganda.

This is a rant, I will put a more reasoned argument forwards later!

Old_Slaphead

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

Yeah I think there are a few chips on quite a few shoulders when it comes to the public sector.

I'll tell you why I have a chip on my shoulder…..

Most of my friends, family and neighbours work in public sector.

There seems to be a perception that all this stuff about the ‘credit crunch’ is just overhysterical newspapers & TV and they wonder what the fuss is all about. They have secure jobs, secure pensions, decent (and this year above inflation) payrises and some have been getting considerable mortgage repayments so they can afford a second or third luxury cruise this year and/or maybe a new car. All in all life's quite rosey.

Even I benefit from this largess – my partner (again public sector) has just received a totally unexpected pay rise going back 6 years. Even before this she thought herself well paid.

Just because I benefit it doesn’t mean that I think the system is right and proper.

I work in manufacturing where things have been grim for ages. Most employees are on minimum wage & consequently are on benefits. Many are now on short time working. We’re generating growth for the economy and tax revenue for the exchequer. Like many SMEs we can rarely afford pay rises, bonuses or pension contribs. Governments often tell us how important we are but offer no help -without the thousands of small businesses like ours there wouldn’t be such an overinflated public sector.

Everybody works damned hard for little reward and it sticks in the craw just a little when you see vast amounts of government waste and significant pay and perks to the many unproductive bureaucratic ‘pen pushers’ in public sectors, quangos etc.

I’ve nothing against front line staff getting fair wages and now most do.

I do object to the continuation of the unfunded, ‘goldplated’ pension, a luxury that few outside the sector can aspire to but which for they will be expected to pick up the bill. Even those of us who’ve set aside some private pension money have seen it pilfered by the Gov’t and the remaining value considerably eroded by Labour’s gross mismanagement of the economy over the last 12 years.

Rant over! (for now anyway)

macaque_2

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

Yeah I think there are a few chips on quite a few shoulders when it comes to the public sector.

I apologise in advance if I have missunderstood your post (but I don't think I have).

Your post reflects the very antithesis of concern. To you, people's worries are mere 'chips on shoulders'. You have clearly purged yourself of all sense of public service or ultruism. For you, the modern public sector is no more than a trough to be exploited. If you foul the trough, who cares. It becomes someone else's problem.

For good reason people are deeply troubled with the public sector. These concerns extend to salaries, pensions, productivity, manning levels and competence. The public sector are surviving in a 1970s bubble protected by strong unions and weak management. This is having a severe impact on industry. This year, 3 major pharmaceutical companies are closing manufacturing facilitie in the UK. Companies throughout industry are reducing their UK presence to sales offices. The problem is that wealth creating companies are finding it increasingly difficult to operate in the UK. Red tape, tax and costs are getting increasingly out of line with our competitors.

Even though you don't seem to care about others, you might reflect on your own future. Unless our public sector can sort themselves out they will cook the goose that lays the golden eggs.

mrstinchcombe

macaque wrote: »

I apologise in advance if I have missunderstood your post (but I don't think I have).

You have misunderstood.

macaque_2

mrstinchcombe wrote: »

You have misunderstood.

Perhaps you could elaborate because your post is ambiguous.

"You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention, when questioned, something which you later rely on in court."

bigheadxx

My wife also works in the public sector and we too have benefited from several one payments when A4C was finally sorted out in the NHS. However when you see the disarray of front line services it really does make your blood boil when you know how much money has been thrown into it and there has not been an improvement in the overall service.

A lot of front line staff do a good job but there are many that dont. What we have in place now is a system that it indifferent to waste, fraud and incompetence. If you can make £200 on "spoiled meal" allowances in one month then you are not going to be interested in that extra overtime shift when your colleagues really need you.

Many people work weekends and nights in the private sector for no enhancements whatsover and the system that has been introduced is more complicated and more expensive. Do you know if you disturb Ambulance Crew on a break you have to pay them £30 each. And they are very millitant about this system so why does the government introduce policies that encourage and entrench millitant behaviour. We are back in the 70's in terms of manpower planning within the public sector and the opportunity to make real changes and improvements has been lost.

Forget the Winter of Discontent, we are going to see a decade of discontent as public sector workers and unions are dragged kicking and screaming back to reality.

Teachertim

bigheadxx wrote: »

Just spent 24 hours at the mercy of the NHS with an ill child. What a joke!!

Appointment at 10.10am yesterday with out of hours doctor.
Next 30 min drive to another hospital.
Nurse induction at 12.00pm (asked all the questions that they have already got on the computer)
Waited 2 hours for doctor.
2.00pm doctor comes and asks the same questions.
Doctor and nurse dont actually agree on the medication but actually receives some at 2.30.

Wanted to go home but doctor said should stay in.

This morning waiting for 3 hours for doctor just to be discharged. Just got home now. The nurse this morning didnt even know how to hold the inhaler!!! and they are insistent that he received steroids yesterday but he didnt.

Plenty of nurses on the wards busy doing nothing.
WHy are doctors treated like lords, in any other country you would be seen immediately.
Unless you encountered the inefficiency, malaise, ineptitude you would not believe it. It is a disgrace.

We have thrown billions at this service in the last ten years and has it improved? No. The service is appalling to what it was in the past and it is a disgrace what this government has done. How can it make rational decisions for the good of the country when it will not do anything to upset the public sector unions that pay for its propoganda.

This is a rant, I will put a more reasoned argument forwards later!

Sounds to me like the system needs more money, not less, to train the staff who work in it better and lighten their workload !

Old_Slaphead

Teachertim wrote: »

Sounds to me like the system needs more money, not less, to train the staff who work in it better and lighten their workload !

Sounds to me like yer' archetypal public sector response that does!

More money, more money, more money.

(I hope your response was facetious but I'm assuming it wasn't)