Public sector monster needs to be tamed

donaldtramp

Sounds to me like the system needs more money, not less, to train the staff who work in it better and lighten their workload !

Yup that's right. I'm going to absolutely love watching you guys go on strike and get laid off left right and centre when this marxist system gets taken to bits. I might even turn up and throw some eggs:p
It is going to happen, I absolutely guarantee it, with £100s of billions of liabilities it is totally unsustainable.

Enjoy your smugness while you can. It aint going to last much longer...;)
You'll have to pay your own way sooner than you think. Imagine that?

donaldtramp

This always happens I think, the classic straw man in any kind of argument along these lines is to compare the best of one sector to the worse of the other as if that proves a point. The real issues are too complex to boil down to one simple problem with one simple answer.

The simple problem is the hundreds of billions worth of liabilities for the public sector. Unsustainable and increasingly unjustified.

maisymoo77

donaldtramp wrote: »

Enjoy your smugness while you can. It aint going to last much longer...;)
You'll have to pay your own way sooner than you think. Imagine that?

Can I ask what you mean when you say 'You'll have to pay your own way sooner than you think. Imagine that?'

RobertoMoir

Teachertim wrote: »

Sounds to me like the system needs more money, not less, to train the staff who work in it better and lighten their workload !

To be fair, the NHS has had quite a lot of money thrown at it over the past few years. Problem is that a lot of it has been spent on bureaucracy, and an obsession on measuring stuff and setting targets, whether or not the target and measurements make sense...

And while I think that was probably born out of a sincere but misguided attempt to improve things, there's not much doubt that at least some of this stuff has turned into a 'jobs for the boys' club for some people - and of course those usual suspects around PFI projects and the like have snouts deep in the trough too.

donaldtramp

Maisymoo,

Can I ask what you mean when you say 'You'll have to pay your own way sooner than you think. Imagine that?'

Certainly!
The size of the problem (before the recent plunge in the stock markets, that will have made things worse):
http://www.citywire.co.uk/personal/-/news/money-property-and-tax/content.aspx?ID=323921

Public sector pensions bill to hit £1 trillion

By Maryrose Fison | 11:46:49 | 15 December 2008
The Confederation of British Industry has called for an urgent review of public sector pension schemes, which it estimates will cost tax payers nearly £1 trillion over the next few decades.
New research from the CBI estimates that the liabilities from unfunded public sector pension schemes is likely to be at least £915 billion – while some experts believe the figure is closer to £1 trillion.

So that's 1 TRILLION pounds of debt that will have to be paid out.
Clearly totally and impossibly unaffordable with an ageing population that is living longer (except teachers for some reason:rolleyes:)

Now even Crash Brown and his party are looking into curbing it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/4839331/Government-admits-taking-advice-on-cutting-public-sector-pensions.html

John Ralfe, the consultant who switched Boots' pension fund out of shares while the FTSE 100 stood more than 50pc higher than it does today, used the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act to prise an admission out of the Treasury that millions of people on the public payroll may find disturbing.
After estimates that final-salary or defined-benefit pensions already promised to public sector workers may cost taxpayers more than £750bn to deliver, Mr Ralfe asked the Treasury if it had considered cutting these entitlements. Last week, a Treasury official wrote back to say: "I am writing to confirm that we hold relevant information, in relation to your request for 'any papers showing whether the Government has taken advice or has a view on the legality under European law of, effectively, defaulting on public sector pensions'.

Now put it together. Even Comrade Brown knows he is in the Doo doo.
But with a general election coming up he can't be seen to do over all the millions of people he has "got into jobs" (hence lowering the unemployment rate) by signing them up to "work" in our obese public sector. I can't be bothered looking out the figures but I believe the public sector has expanded by about 1.3 million jobs since Crash Gordon and Labour came to power.

So Gordon will keep all this quiet as he can't possibly annoy all those millions of people who depend on the state just now can he? That's if he wants to win the election coming up in 12 months(maximum).

Brown winning the next general election!!!! Did I just write that???
HA HA HA :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

So no matter who gets in next, the Public sector pensions are toast.
Enjoy thinking you have a bullet proof pension while you can!;)

I know you have an almighty shock coming;)

donaldtramp

It;s already happening...
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/15071/Doomsday-budget-to-cut-.5073254.jp

and after the next general election....
http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-much-will-george-have-to-cut.html

As we all understand by now, public spending will have to be cut drastically after the next election. Brown will leave us with a legacy of debt that we will be paying off for decades, and short of taxing the economy into oblivion, public spending will have to slashed.

But how much? What figure should George be targeting?

This week, ConservativeHome published an interesting - and unnerving - paper by Malcolm Offord. He estimates that by 2020, annual spending might need to be cut by £185bn (in today's money) from what it would be under unchanged policies. That's equivalent to around 30% of today's public spending - an eye-watering cut.

Offord's projections are based on GDP falling by 5% between 2008-09 and 2009-10, flattening out in 2010-11, and then growing again by 2.5% pa thereafter - not unreasonable, and certainly not the Armageddon scenario predicted by some. But what drives his savage spending cuts is the fact that even under his moderate assumptions our debt/GDP ratio soars way above a long-term sustainable level.

In the absence of spending cuts or tax increases, Offord projects our Maastricht debt ratio will rise to a stonking 156% by 2019-20. Not only would that be nearly 3 times the 60% maximum permitted under Maastrict, much more importantly, it would almost certainly trigger the wholesale flight by international investors we've blogged about so often. Which would really put us in the merde.

It's difficult to argue with Offord's logic, but the bad news is that his assumptions may not be pessimistic enough...........(it continues)

Old_Slaphead

donaldtramp wrote: »

Maisymoo,
I can't be bothered looking out the figures but I believe the public sector has expanded by about 1.3 million jobs since Crash Gordon and Labour came to power.

Despite a reduction of about 100,000 in 2008 (probably due to outsourcing), the public sector payroll has increased by nearly 700,000 between 1998 - 2008.

Over the 2 year from 2008, private sector jobs are likely to reduce by 2 million if unemployment statistics are to be believed (public sector is expected to fall by another 100,000 insame period).

Logic tells me there's trouble ahead for public sector spending - some sacred cows will have to be sacrificed m'thinks

pickles110564

donaldtramp wrote: »

I can't be bothered looking out the figures but I believe the public sector has expanded by about 1.3 million jobs since Crash Gordon and Labour came to power.

Surley it is a good thing that more people are in jobs.
I have good friends that are soon going to be unemployeed and it sucks.

Old_Slaphead

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

Bloody hell, is this thread STILL chugging along!

Admittedly it's a bit OTT but at least it's better than some of the inane postings by some of the "thank you" lovvies on some of the other threads.

Teachertim

pickles110564 wrote: »

Surley it is a good thing that more people are in jobs.
I have good friends that are soon going to be unemployeed and it sucks.

Tell them to join the public sector ! The way people are talking on here it's a right barrel of laughs! Obviously they don't need any training and the job they do will be pointless, but hey ! Welcome ! AND they get a fantastic pension.