Public sector monster needs to be tamed

vivatifosi

Not sure if this has been posted before, but the CBI published a paper on public sector pensions the back end of last year. It makes for interesting reading and can be found here:

http://www.cbi.org.uk/pdf/20081201-CBI-Public-Sector-Pensions-Brief.pdf

In addition, the footnotes to the paper also provide some interesting references. Just depends how much of your Sunday you want to spend reading up on pensions provision for the public sector and not getting out and about. We finally have decent weather here Gen!

Generali

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Dunno but my LA has pension assets of £800million and liabilities of £1.4bn. - thats at 03/2008 before the recent acceleration of stockmarket falls.

LAP underfunding last year was over £20bn

This year of course it's expected to be much worse but part (but I suspect not all) of shortfall may be recouped if markets pick up.

Interesting, thanks.

Here in Aus, the public and private sectors both have to pay into superannuation - your money goes in taxed at a low rate (15%?) and you pay (10%?) on income on investments held in the superannuation. You don't pay tax on the pension payments though AIUI.

The public sector usually get a much higher rate of employer contribution than private sector employees. At least there can't be an increase in unfunded liabilities as there isn't any liability falling to the state.

beingjdc

macaque wrote: »

If you are going to make claims like this, you should back it up with evidence. The maltreatment death rate in Britain is 0.4 deaths per 100,000 children. This is higher than some countries and marginally lower than others.

A League Table of Child Maltreatment Deaths in Rich Nations - per 100,000.

MEXICO 2.2
USA 2.2
NEW ZEALAND 1.2
HUNGARY 1.2
AUSTRIA 0.9
SWITZERLAND 0.8
AUSTRALIA 0.7
CANADA 0.7
FINLAND 0.7
DENMARK 0.7
JAPAN 0.6
KOREA 0.6
BELGIUM 0.6
GERMANY 0.6
CZECH REPUBLIC 0.6
NETHERLANDS 0.5
FRANCE 0.5
POLAND 0.5
SWEDEN 0.5
PORTUGAL 0.4
SLOVAK REPUBLIC 0.4
UK 0.4
NORWAY 0.3
IRELAND 0.2
ITALY 0.2
GREECE 0.2
SPAIN 0.1


http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/repcard5e.pdf

macaque_2

beingjdc wrote: »

A League Table of Child Maltreatment Deaths in Rich Nations - per 100,000.

MEXICO 2.2
USA 2.2
NEW ZEALAND 1.2
HUNGARY 1.2
AUSTRIA 0.9
SWITZERLAND 0.8
AUSTRALIA 0.7
CANADA 0.7
FINLAND 0.7
DENMARK 0.7
JAPAN 0.6
KOREA 0.6
BELGIUM 0.6
GERMANY 0.6
CZECH REPUBLIC 0.6
NETHERLANDS 0.5
FRANCE 0.5
POLAND 0.5
SWEDEN 0.5
PORTUGAL 0.4
SLOVAK REPUBLIC 0.4
UK 0.4
NORWAY 0.3
IRELAND 0.2
ITALY 0.2
GREECE 0.2
SPAIN 0.1


http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/repcard5e.pdf

Good, I am glad you have come clean because statistics don't align with what you said earlier:

far fewer people succeed in killing their kids in England than in most other developed countries

Excuse me while I blow the smoke off the end of the barrel.

beingjdc

macaque wrote: »

Good, I am glad you have come clean because statistics don't align with what you said earlier:



Excuse me while I blow the smoke off the end of the barrel.

Over 75% less than in the most similar society to us, the USA? About half as many as the "white commonwealth" to which we're otherwise most alike - Australia, New Zealand, Canada? I call that 'far fewer'. Fewer, overall, than in 20 of the countries studied, more than in 6 - I make 20 "most" of 26.

macaque_2

beingjdc wrote: »

Over 75% less than in the most similar society to us, the USA? About half as many as the "white commonwealth" to which we're otherwise most alike - Australia, New Zealand, Canada? I call that 'far fewer'. Fewer, overall, than in 20 of the countries studied, more than in 6 - I make 20 "most" of 26.

Fair enough, but the numbers don't support your earlier claim. What you said was

(far fewer people succeed in killing their kids in England than in most other developed countries),

The difference between the maximum and minimum numbers is circa 0.002%. The difference between the UK and no 7 on the list is 0.0003%. Your claims 'of far fewer than most other developed countries' is complete nonsense. If you want to see big differences look at health related matters or road accidents.

An interesting point about the stats is that southern European countries come out better than the UK. I have a sneaky suspicion that they also spend a fraction of the UK on child care departments.

RobertoMoir

Generali wrote: »

Interesting, thanks.

Here in Aus, the public and private sectors both have to pay into superannuation - your money goes in taxed at a low rate (15%?) and you pay (10%?) on income on investments held in the superannuation. You don't pay tax on the pension payments though AIUI.

The public sector usually get a much higher rate of employer contribution than private sector employees. At least there can't be an increase in unfunded liabilities as there isn't any liability falling to the state.

I think I heard about this. Was it Aus or somewhere else I wonder - a lot of people were protesting a scheme like this and were quite surprised to find it actually worked quite well in the end.

It does sound like a fair system to be honest, if only because it's open and easy to understand, so we'll probably never see it here in the UK. Not as a central govt. backed scheme anyway.

Paparika

donaldtramp wrote: »

This is simply not sustainable and the country can't stand for it.
This gravy train HAS to come to an end.

Bring on the cull. These are OUR taxes, OUR money that the public sector is doing very nicely out of thank you very much.

I work in the public sector, I pay into my pension, Its my pension, as i am sure i also pay other people's pension.

So what are you saying you want my pension? hey take the shirt off my back too whilst your at it, oh and can you pay my bills and debts too

mrstinchcombe

Paparika wrote: »

I work in the public sector, I pay into my pension, Its my pension, as i am sure i also pay other people's pension.

So what are you saying you want my pension? hey take the shirt off my back too whilst your at it, oh and can you pay my bills and debts too

Of course we all pay in private pensions too, if I use Natwest as a customer for example then I pay towards the pensions of Natwest staff. Likewise taxpayers use public services as a customer hence they contribute towards public sector pensions.

Remember people in the private sector are free to apply for public sector jobs, although moaning about the public sector seems the easier option!

donaldtramp

I work in the public sector, I pay into my pension, Its my pension, as i am sure i also pay other people's pension.

So what are you saying you want my pension? hey take the shirt off my back too whilst your at it, oh and can you pay my bills and debts too

Why not? The public sector have been taking the shirt of our back for years:rotfl:and getting away with it!!!
Who's pension do you directly contribute other than your own??? Like my taxes directly funding yours?

As for the stats, I could produce stat after stat about how our country has plummeted in loads of measures against other countries despite our massive public sector. acheiving nothing once again:rolleyes:

Remember people in the private sector are free to apply for public sector jobs, although moaning about the public sector seems the easier option!

ONCE AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT TO WORK IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR. WE ARE NOT JEALOUS. WE ARE SICK OF PAYING THROUGH THE NOSE FOR IT.

but as it has already been said, it is a great day. I'm off outside!!!
So should you lot;)