Public sector monster needs to be tamed

beingjdc

donaldtramp wrote: »

I'm not even going to go into the average sick leave of 3 weeks per employee in local councils.

We've been through this twice already on this board. Most of that is

1) Teachers on long-term sick. I would be and you probably would too if you had to deal with 30 of today's feral youths every day. Up to the school to manage, but counts in the Council's sickness figures.
2) Old people's care workers. If you have anything that even might be infectious, you have to go off sick. It might be ok to go into an office with the sniffles, it's not ok to risk giving it to a bunch of people in their 80s when it could kill them.
3) Firemen who've injured themselves in the course of duty. A bit of padding goes on here thanks to one of the country's strongest unions, but it is genuinely a dangerous job too!

Apart from that, the public sector employs fewer of the kind of temps and hourly workers who don't get paid a penny if they don't turn up.

Personally I think that's a good thing, I see friends who have to turn up to a job when they're in no fit state to do it, achieve nothing, but infect everyone on their bus, just because they can't cope without the day's wages.

(Oh and for what it's worth I've had 3 sick days in the last 4 years, but then I'm not a fireman, teacher, or care worker).

blakester

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

As I understand it the 11% is not obligatory - it is optional for extra benefits ie early retirement

Its not for extra benefits, they are the terms and conditions of the pension. It has actually changed now for new entrants, 9% contributions for 35 years

bigheadxx

blakester wrote: »

I noticed you had edited that from 40 to 30 years.. And who said anything about anyone being impoverished? There could be any number of reasons why your neighbour can afford a new car. Would you really grudge someone a pension which they have contributed to?

The point is that what they have contributed would not buy a decent pension in the private sector.

StevieJ

blakester wrote: »

I noticed you had edited that from 40 to 30 years.. And who said anything about anyone being impoverished? There could be any number of reasons why your neighbour can afford a new car. Would you really grudge someone a pension which they have contributed to?

Is envy one of the seven deadly sins

Old_Slaphead

blakester wrote: »

I noticed you had edited that from 40 to 30 years.. And who said anything about anyone being impoverished? There could be any number of reasons why your neighbour can afford a new car. Would you really grudge someone a pension which they have contributed to?

Poor maths - can't deduct 80 from 50.

Believe it or not I am on speaking terms with my neighbour and even he thinks the pension scheme is quote 'generous and unaffordable in the long term'

ukcarper

It's not only the public sector that have final salary schemes

chewmylegoff

WFT? wrote: »

but they have a guaranteed pension for that 11%, so no worries about the vagaries of the stockmarket. If they had defined contribution pensions instead of defined benefit ones it would be fairer. Can you imagine any public sector servant agreeing to that though?

the trouble with any switchover to defined benefit is that it would be massively expensive in the short to medium term, as the govt would have to pay the actual pension payments to pensioners as well as real contributions into the new defined benefit scheme - currently it doesn't make the real contributions. it would frontload the payments, but that would mean the present generation of tax payers taking an almighty hit for the benefit of future generations.

either that or we could just borrow a couple of hundred billion more and dump it on our children and their children!

StevieJ

bigheadxx wrote: »

The point is that what they have contributed would not buy a decent pension in the private sector.

I paid less and and am entitled to a similar pension from the private sector When I looked for a job pension provision, was high on the list of priorities.

beingjdc

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Not the point.

They get a decent/good rate of pay now - why shouldn''t they start paying for their own pension like the rest of us instead of relying on a vast taxpayer subsidy?

Go on, I'd get in there if I were you. East Sussex County Council needs 30 homecare assistants. 20 hours a week, and after three years you'll earn £9680 a year. If you're 40 now and do it until you're 60, and contribute to the pension scheme, you'll retire on the princely sum of £62 a week.

And all you have to do is spend nineteen thousand hours wiping pensioners' and disabled kids' bums when they're too far gone to do it themselves. I don't see how you could refuse, really!

bigheadxx

beingjdc wrote: »

We've been through this twice already on this board. Most of that is

1) Teachers on long-term sick. I would be and you probably would too if you had to deal with 30 of today's feral youths every day. Up to the school to manage, but counts in the Council's sickness figures.
2) Old people's care workers. If you have anything that even might be infectious, you have to go off sick. It might be ok to go into an office with the sniffles, it's not ok to risk giving it to a bunch of people in their 80s when it could kill them.
3) Firemen who've injured themselves in the course of duty. A bit of padding goes on here thanks to one of the country's strongest unions, but it is genuinely a dangerous job too!

Apart from that, the public sector employs fewer of the kind of temps and hourly workers who don't get paid a penny if they don't turn up.

Personally I think that's a good thing, I see friends who have to turn up to a job when they're in no fit state to do it, achieve nothing, but infect everyone on their bus, just because they can't cope without the day's wages.

(Oh and for what it's worth I've had 3 sick days in the last 4 years, but then I'm not a fireman, teacher, or care worker).

Its not only public sector workers that work with vulnerable people. You just wouldnt get away with these levels of sickness in a private firm.