Public sector monster needs to be tamed

Andy_L

Although I see they still assume that pensions are only paid out of domestic council tax, ignoring business rates & central government grant.

Old_Slaphead

Andy_L wrote: »

Although I see they still assume that pensions are only paid out of domestic council tax, ignoring business rates & central government grant.

Doesn't really matter - they all still come from the taxpayer (local or national) in one way, shape or form.

Andy_L

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Doesn't really matter - they all still come from the taxpayer (local or national) in one way, shape or form.

True, but there's a world of difference between the TPA's implication that "Council spends 20% of budget on pensions" and "Council spends ~7% of budget on pensions".

http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/accounts07-08summary.pdf - Notts council, as they were 1st on google, £282m Council tax out of £826m funding but no doubt that varies drastically depending on the mix of residential/business in each County

louise1975_2

I love reading all these posts about the public sector and how we all get such a great deal and easy everything is for us! Yes I work for my local County Council in a Business Development role (yes they have those in the private sector too!) My pay is about half of what it would be in the private sector but I chose to work here for two reasons one is I have a disability and the private sector is too predjudiced to employ disabled people. Secondly I enjoy helping people without having to misell them products to make a fast buck. Yes I am in the pension scheme, but I will have to work until i'm 65 like everyone else. I also contribute 6.5% to it each month. I won't get the full pension when I retire because I won't have enough pensionable years (40 despite people on here thinking you get it automatically after a years service!). I also pay tax, NI and council tax, again people seem to think if you work for the council you don't pay these things so I effectively contribute to my pension twice! My partner works in the private sector and gets a pension and sick pay too!!

Old_Slaphead

Andy_L wrote: »

True, but there's a world of difference between the TPA's implication that "Council spends 20% of budget on pensions" and "Council spends ~7% of budget on pensions".

http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/accounts07-08summary.pdf - Notts council, as they were 1st on google, £282m Council tax out of £826m funding but no doubt that varies drastically depending on the mix of residential/business in each County

Agreed the pension spend based on locally raised revenue is approx 18% (co-incidentally Notts CC IS my council). Of more concern, even given this level of funding, there is still a £500m shortfall (on 0.9bn assets) - and that's before the stockmarket crash.

In Notts cash pension contribs are 25% of council tax and 18% of locally raised taxes.

Old_Slaphead

louise1975 wrote: »

I love reading all these posts about the public sector and how we all get such a great deal and easy everything is for us! Yes I work for my local County Council in a Business Development role (yes they have those in the private sector too!) My pay is about half of what it would be in the private sector but I chose to work here for two reasons one is I have a disability and the private sector is too predjudiced to employ disabled people. Secondly I enjoy helping people without having to misell them products to make a fast buck. Yes I am in the pension scheme, but I will have to work until i'm 65 like everyone else. I also contribute 6.5% to it each month. I won't get the full pension when I retire because I won't have enough pensionable years (40 despite people on here thinking you get it automatically after a years service!). I also pay tax, NI and council tax, again people seem to think if you work for the council you don't pay these things so I effectively contribute to my pension twice! My partner works in the private sector and gets a pension and sick pay too!!

I don't think anybody objects to fair pay for all - what gets some of us mad is that Gordon Brown has destroyed the pension system for most of us whilst ensuring that the favoured few (ie public sector) have not suffered a similar diminution in benefit.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/management/article5877008.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=1185799

Guy_Montag

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I don't think anybody objects to fair pay for all - what gets some of us mad is that Gordon Brown has destroyed the pension system for most of us whilst ensuring that the favoured few (ie public sector) have not suffered a similar diminution in benefit.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/management/article5877008.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=1185799

So why are you lashing out at the "few" (I thought there were billions & billions, mostly lesbian, Muslim, illegal immigrants) that haven't lost out instead of those that have, in your view & mine, damaged everyone else's ability to save for pensions.

So instead of taking a swipe at public sector workers because they are lucky enough not to have lost out (yet) & focus on those that have caused the problem. Write to your MP, call up the local opposition candidate, write to the papers.

Personally I think the imposition of tax on pension funds, not only discouraged people from saving for their retirement, it also did a lot to encourage the speculative bubble in property, as people saw it as a "safe" way of funding their retirement.

Strong, safe pensions for all seems a winner for the country, for everyone in the country, but it's perhaps not a vote winner because people don't see it as immediate concern.

Old_Slaphead

Guy_Montag wrote: »

So why are you lashing out at the "few" (I thought there were billions & billions, mostly lesbian, Muslim, illegal immigrants) that haven't lost out instead of those that have, in your view & mine, damaged everyone else's ability to save for pensions.

So instead of taking a swipe at public sector workers because they are lucky enough not to have lost out (yet) & focus on those that have caused the problem. Write to your MP, call up the local opposition candidate, write to the papers.

Personally I think the imposition of tax on pension funds, not only discouraged people from saving for their retirement, it also did a lot to encourage the speculative bubble in property, as people saw it as a "safe" way of funding their retirement.

Strong, safe pensions for all seems a winner for the country, for everyone in the country, but it's perhaps not a vote winner because people don't see it as immediate concern.

Because the 'few' are costing hundreds of billions - and this cost is unaffordable given the state of the economy (and likely to be so for the next 20 years).
Because the income of the 'few' is being underwritten by people who are likely to be impoverished in their old age.
Because the 'few' get decent (even good) wages. Why shouldn't we all be treated equal - why should the 'few' get benefits that are denied the many?
Because we're handing down a massive amount of debt and accrued liabilities to the younger generations - what have they done to deserve that?

Don't assume I haven't written to my MP either.

donaldtramp

Write to your MP, call up the local opposition candidate, write to the papers.

I wouldn't assume that I haven't spoken to my MP, local councillors or that I haven't had a word with a couple of Journos I know either.

As for the paublic sector employees that keep saying "but i contribute 6.5%" etc...

I am sick to the back teeth of hearing that argument. I also contribute to my pension.
BUT
It isn't final salary,
It isn't topped up by tens of millions of pounds a year by taxpayers,
It doesn't bring a HUGE liability for the taxpayer over the coming decades.
My pension has already been raided by the Labour party with the tax grab they did.

You guys are getting away with murder and you surely must know it.

donaldtramp

The Times
March 10, 2009
Defined-benefit pensions must be declined — and killed off


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/management/article5877008.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=1185799