Public sector monster needs to be tamed

Radiantsoul

donaldtramp wrote: »

thriftminx,



Woopee. You've got a guaranteed, final salary pension subsidised by the taxpayer that kicks in at 65! (unlike most of the public sector staff already employed retiring at 60, thats if they don't take early retirement)
Lucky you! Mine is invested in the stockmarket and I won't be retiring till 68/69!(dependant on how the economy does). In the meantime I'll top up your pension shall I???
That makes me angry

Why don't you get a job working for your local council?

Old_Slaphead

Radiantsoul wrote: »

Why don't you get a job working for your local council?

If we ALL worked for the council then who'd pay our wages & pensions?

Decades ago, I worked in Inland Revenue for a couple of years. It was the most stultifying experience. Most of staff seemed brain dead - still that was CS culture, at bottom end anyway.

Radiantsoul

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

If we ALL worked for the council then who'd pay our wages & pensions?

If everyone went to the toilet at the same time as me we would spend all our time queuing.

If working for the council is so great then why don't you all do it? It doesn't follow that everyone else will do the same...

donaldtramp

Radiant Soul,

You just don't get it do you? I have NO WISH to work for the public sector.
I'm not jealous of the perks, I am sick of paying for them!!!

I wouldn't work in the public sector for the following reasons,

I enjoy working.
I couldn't bring myself to enjoy a bullet proof pension that is denied to the average person. People on low wages are supporting people in Council pensions.
I see no reason to take 3 weeks a year sick leave. I enjoy working.
I never see the need to threaten strikes to force my needs onto the general population.
I couldn't work in an environment where 1970's union mentatilty is rife.
I couldn't work with people who are below par and have to cover for their lack of work.
I don't think I'll see the need to retire at 50.
I don't think I could justify a wage that is higher than a similar position in the private sector who would be paying my wages.
I believe Britain should be cutting red tape not increasing it and strangling businesses.
I couldn't work with a service that is supposed to be actually serving people and not a tax consuming monster.
I believe Britain would be a far more dynamic and prosperous place if people chose to take risks and chances in business not just suckle up to the teat that is public sector payroll. Anything for an easy life eh?
I could not bear to see the incompetence and waste that goes on first hand. If this happens in the private sector, companies go under and jobs are lost. Public sector just goes cap in hand to the government. No jobs lost, no incompetents thrown out and the waste continues.

I could go on and on and on but hopefully you now understand my thoughts?

beingjdc

donaldtramp wrote: »

I enjoy working.

Plenty of jobs for you in that case!

I couldn't bring myself to enjoy a bullet proof pension that is denied to the average person.

Opt out of the pension scheme then, I am.

I see no reason to take 3 weeks a year sick leave. I enjoy working.

I've had four days' sick leave in the last three years. We've been through why the public sector has (slightly) higher sick leave than the private sector - lots of very good reasons.

I never see the need to threaten strikes to force my needs onto the general population.

You might when inflation hits more than 5% and you're offered a 2% rise.

I couldn't work in an environment where 1970's union mentatilty is rife.

You might be pleasantly surprised, depending where you work.

I couldn't work with people who are below par and have to cover for their lack of work.

So don't? I never have. If people have been rubbish and not got the job done at least to an acceptable standard, I've complained about it. Surely if we're paying such huge sums, we must be skimming off the cream and leaving you with the dross? If not, why might that be?

I don't think I'll see the need to retire at 50.

Then don't become a fireman, a soldier, or a frontline police officer, and you won't.

I don't think I could justify a wage that is higher than a similar position in the private sector who would be paying my wages.

That's OK - like for like, as we've established here over and over again, you won't have to. If you're a public sector manager, you'll earn more than the private sector person who cleans your office, but less than a private sector manager. If you're a state school teacher you'll earn more than the private sector dinner ladies, but less than a public school teacher.

I believe Britain should be cutting red tape not increasing it and strangling businesses.

Only a small minority of jobs in the public sector are concerned with making and enforcing regulation (and when kebab shops are still riddled with cockroaches and salmonella, and my neighbours think 5am is a good time for a rave, I'm glad some are), most are concerned with delivering a service.

I couldn't work with a service that is supposed to be actually serving people and not a tax consuming monster.

Are we talking about the public sector, or the banking industry? That's just your prejudice about what is a good contribution - in contrast I think teachers do more good than estate agents, and nurses more good than double glazing salesmen. Other people think differently - either deal with it and stop acting envious, or get over your prejudices and apply, if you're sure you're up to it.

drc

donaldtramp wrote: »

Radiant Soul,

You just don't get it do you? I have NO WISH to work for the public sector.
I'm not jealous of the perks, I am sick of paying for them!!!

I wouldn't work in the public sector for the following reasons,

I enjoy working.
I couldn't bring myself to enjoy a bullet proof pension that is denied to the average person. People on low wages are supporting people in Council pensions.
I see no reason to take 3 weeks a year sick leave. I enjoy working.
I never see the need to threaten strikes to force my needs onto the general population.
I couldn't work in an environment where 1970's union mentatilty is rife.
I couldn't work with people who are below par and have to cover for their lack of work.
I don't think I'll see the need to retire at 50.
I don't think I could justify a wage that is higher than a similar position in the private sector who would be paying my wages.
I believe Britain should be cutting red tape not increasing it and strangling businesses.
I couldn't work with a service that is supposed to be actually serving people and not a tax consuming monster.
I believe Britain would be a far more dynamic and prosperous place if people chose to take risks and chances in business not just suckle up to the teat that is public sector payroll. Anything for an easy life eh?
I could not bear to see the incompetence and waste that goes on first hand. If this happens in the private sector, companies go under and jobs are lost. Public sector just goes cap in hand to the government. No jobs lost, no incompetents thrown out and the waste continues.

I could go on and on and on but hopefully you now understand my thoughts?

I'm sure this is not indicative of all local authority workers, but a friend of mine who worked at the local council for many years told me that it was common place for his fellow workers to sabotage necessary office equipment so that they could not do their job. They would do this time and time again. This not only cost the taxpayer money in replacing said equipment but it also meant that taxpayers were paying the salaries of people who simply did not want to work. Nothing was ever done about it because of the whole 'proof' element and litigious culture we now have. It's no wonder council tax goes up above inflation every year since taxpayers are assumed to be an unquestioning fount of money who will never answer back. If we do we are threatened with the heavies and a criminal record. Needless to say, my friend no longer works in the council and is now a driving instructor (in the private sector).

beingjdc

drc wrote: »

I'm sure this is not indicative of all local authority workers, but a friend of mine who worked at the local council for many years told me that it was common place for his fellow workers to sabotage necessary office equipment so that they could not do their job. They would do this time and time again. This not only cost the taxpayer money in replacing said equipment but it also meant that taxpayers were paying the salaries of people who simply did not want to work. Nothing was ever done about it because of the whole 'proof' element and litigious culture we now have. It's no wonder council tax goes up above inflation every year since taxpayers are assumed to be an unquestioning fount of money who will never answer back. If we do we are threatened with the heavies and a criminal record. Needless to say, my friend no longer works in the council and is now a driving instructor (in the private sector).

I have never heard of anything like that happening anywhere. As for nobody ever getting sacked, Kent County Council sacked some people last year for using Ebay at their office computers. I don't know how much they were doing it, but unless it was pretty major I think sacking is a bit much for a first offence. In any case, that's what they did.

CPI excluding the VAT cut is 4.1% at the moment, the average council tax increase this year will be 3% - so less than inflation. The biggest reasons council tax has been increasing by large amounts in recent years have nothing to do with equipment or staffing, they have been twofold

1) The Government increased funding for schools hugely, and that all came out of council funds, and
2) One of the biggest spending areas for councils is care and support for old people, from care homes to meals on wheels. The number of old people is going up rapidly.

Old_Slaphead

beingjdc wrote: »

CPI excluding the VAT cut is 4.1% at the moment, the average council tax increase this year will be 3% - so less than inflation. The biggest reasons council tax has been increasing by large amounts in recent years have nothing to do with equipment or staffing, they have been twofold

1) The Government increased funding for schools hugely, and that all came out of council funds, and
2) One of the biggest spending areas for councils is care and support for old people, from care homes to meals on wheels. The number of old people is going up rapidly.

Think you forgot to add
3) Cost of pension funding

There was a time, a few years ago, when the council tax was broken down by overhead cost so you could see how much was being spent on payroll costs etc. Is this information now too politically sensitive in current climate as breakdown now it only shows analysis by funding areas - care homes, education, parks, roads etc etc.

Andy_L

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Think you forgot to add
3) Cost of pension funding

There was a time, a few years ago, when the council tax was broken down by overhead cost so you could see how much was being spent on payroll costs etc. Is this information now too politically sensitive in current climate as breakdown now it only shows analysis by funding areas - care homes, education, parks, roads etc etc.

It's all in the main accounts, thus saving money by only having it in one place :-)

donaldtramp

Here you go oldslaphead,

a break down of every Council in the countries public sector contributions.
In my area it is £100 for every man woman and child!!!! Good eh?

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/waste/2009/02/council-spending-uncovered-ii-no-3-pensions-.html

There is a link to tables which include every Council.