Bulls Vs Bears

Really2

Martinslovechild wrote: »

There are always those people whose lives are ruined by an economic downturn such as the one we're in now. I don't blame them for saying that they didn't see it coming, but I do blame people for not doing more research several years ago when a friend told them that ill winds are on their way; this may have prevented their downfall now.

See thats an intresting coment. I personaly think if people had prepared earlier it would have just happened sooner (the downturn) so they still would of still got caught out.

if everyone horded cash to prepare for the worse it makes the "worse" happen quicker and longer IMOH.

That is not to excuse some of the recless things that have been done but if we all did the same finance, risk, reward would all be dead and we would all work in tesco's:(

StevieJ

Really2 wrote: »

See thats an intresting coment. I personaly think if people had prepared earlier it would have just happened sooner (the downturn) so they still would of still got caught out.

if everyone horded cash to prepare for the worse it makes the "worse" happen quicker and longer IMOH.

That is not to excuse some of the recless things that have been done but if we all did the same finance, risk, reward would all be dead and we would all work in tesco's:(

HPC would have loved it if everyone and his uncle had decided to flog their houses in 2007

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

See thats an intresting coment. I personaly think if people had prepared earlier it would have just happened sooner (the downturn) so they still would of still got caught out.

if everyone horded cash to prepare for the worse it makes the "worse" happen quicker and longer IMOH.

That is not to excuse some of the recless things that have been done but if we all did the same finance, risk, reward would all be dead and we would all work in tesco's:(

sooner but shallower perhaps? The individual debt we were averagely exposed to might have been lesser and less painfully passed through? Truth is we will never know.

I agree, our risks are and should be our own.....but again, thats what a lot of people have argued...let people take their own risks and let them take the consequences of those decisions too.

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

sooner but shallower perhaps? .

I don't know if everybody went with some of the uber-pessimists on here we would never get out and collapse.

I for one take my responsibility's as my own. I would like to think most others do. I have not seen a sumer 07 buyer blaming other people on here (but their may have been some)
But the majority will come out of the other side of a contraction fine, so the preparing for the worst can fan the flames of a downturn (eg if everyone stops spending we are foobard)

chucky

Wookster wrote: »

Well the biggest investment choice I've made so far was not to buy a property. I decided that in 2004. In hindsight that's been one of the best decisions I've made.

i bought a property in 2002, sold in 2006 and HPI was around 75% - maybe not the best investment choice that you made; that's if you don't mind me saying and won't get upset with me

Wookster

lostinrates wrote: »

sooner but shallower perhaps?

I'm sure it would have been shallower, simply because there would have been less debt, house prices would have been lower so there'd have been less to fall. How will some normality return before asset prices have troughed?

Its all very well to let people take risks, however you have to be prepared for multibillion pound bank bailouts and rising unemployment.

Braveheart100

Martinslovechild wrote: »

It isn't.

It simply affects your values. For example, somebody who was brought up with nothing and becomes successful through their own making is likely to appreciate wealth & success more than somebody who is handed it on a plate since they started with nothing and therefore losing everything simply returns them to their starting point. Somebody who starts with everything has more to lose, so it seems.

I had the great privilege and fortune to be born dirt poor. My parents struggled to feed us, when my shoes wore out I often had to fill them with cardboard until money could be found for replacements. Our carpets were thread-bare, my clothes hand- me-downs. Compared to my parents childhood I was fortunate. They were bombed, had no shoes, survived on rations, got little education and lived about 10 to a house.

So, the idea that we have stuff to complain about now is in my view laughable. Even if we are in the worst recession since WW2 I still feel incredibly lucky.

Braveheart100

Wookster wrote: »

What attitude is that? That I don't think the UK is best placed to weather the storm?

Then you have no need to stay have you? I don't mean that in a nasty way. If you have some money and an education you can go and live almost anywhere.

Martinslovechild

Wookster wrote: »

I'm sure it would have been shallower, simply because there would have been less debt, house prices would have been lower so there'd have been less to fall. How will some normality return before asset prices have troughed?

There is a possibility that the situation may have been a slight improvement on where we are now, but in my mind today is simply the financial equivalent of a slightly larger bag of salt on an already-very-large wound. In other words, the damage was already done; having an economic crash earlier would only have served to protect new entrants to the housing & job markets from late 2007 onwards.

Wookster wrote: »

It's all very well to let people take risks, however you have to be prepared for multibillion pound bank bailouts and rising unemployment.

These are always risks in economic cycles. If you study any period since records began, you'll discover peaks & troughs in economic growth. In other words, it's inevitable. What isn't inevitable is the size of the upturn or downturn.

What is so different about the current downturn is that generally, downturns are nearly always caused by high inflation & unemployment. When governments then try to control the inflation, mass unemployment ensues. This time, deflation is on the cards, certainly in the short-term. Personally, I believe that inflation will be back with a vengeance, as early as late 2009 going into 2010, caused mainly by the massive amounts of government cash currently being injected into the markets.

IveSeenTheLight

lostinrates wrote: »

I live in my parental home. Dh lodges with a great LL. Our last LLwas great, and non propfessional. Our LL before that was crummy, and sleazy and greedy, and we are involved in legal proceedings with him. I've rented before, and only had one other 'professional' LL, who was really very focused on her business over and above either tenant's rights etc. I think LL's are a very necessary part of the sceme of things and that there are great ones and sleazy ones. Just as I am sure there are some frightful tenants along with the normal/good ones.

totally can agree with you here.

doesn't warrant BTL LL's being sleazy and greedy on the whole though doe sit?