Bulls Vs Bears

IveSeenTheLight

ad44downey wrote: »

Cheaper housing for the masses? Less debt and Buy- to- let has become a byword for sleaze and greed. It all sounds good to me

I don't understand why BTL is regarded so much as sleaze and greed.

I often wonder where these guys stay that say these things. I would bet the majority and in rented accomodation with landlords.

StevieJ

Martinslovechild wrote: »

Folks, can we leave the 'racist' issue to one side please - it's moving the focus away from the real discussion.

Thanks.

That Devon character is good at that

Really2

to Clarify.

I think Steve was posting was...
If you came from some where rough, poor or dangerous etc you may believe that the problems this country faces were not as bad compared to how bad things are in other places.

I don't think that was racist but I think the comment of coming from somewhere to London may have got mis-interpreted.

StevieJ

Wookster wrote: »

There is nothing overly sensitive about Viva's post.

Stevie is clutching at strawmen and he's been busted. Pure and simple.

Actually Wookie we know Viva's views on the BNP, what are yours

Wookster

Really2 wrote: »

I don't think that was racist but I think the comment of coming from somewhere to London may have got mis-interpreted.

I still don't see how where I come from is remotely relevant to the validity of my opinions.

lostinrates

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don't understand why BTL is regarded so much as sleaze and greed.

I often wonder where these guys stay that say these things. I would bet the majority and in rented accomodation with landlords.

I live in my parental home. Dh lodges with a great LL. Our last LLwas great, and non propfessional. Our LL before that was crummy, and sleazy and greedy, and we are involved in legal proceedings with him. I've rented before, and only had one other 'professional' LL, who was really very focused on her business over and above either tenant's rights etc. I think LL's are a very necessary part of the sceme of things and that there are great ones and sleazy ones. Just as I am sure there are some frightful tenants along with the normal/good ones.

Really2

Wookster wrote: »

I still don't see how where I come from is remotely relevant to the validity of my opinions.

It does not or the validity of others opinions also.;)

Martinslovechild

Wookster wrote: »

I still don't see how where I come from is remotely relevant to the validity of my opinions.

It isn't.

It simply affects your values. For example, somebody who was brought up with nothing and becomes successful through their own making is likely to appreciate wealth & success more than somebody who is handed it on a plate since they started with nothing and therefore losing everything simply returns them to their starting point. Somebody who starts with everything has more to lose, so it seems.

Now, can we all kiss & make up. I was enjoying the original 'bull/bear' discussion.

Thanks.

kabayiri

Martinslovechild wrote: »

It's interesting how people have been happy to make their way to Primark to purchase clothes at knock-down prices and yet are concerned about trade imbalances. After all, the rise & rise of LCD TV and Digital Cameras over the past 10 years has helped China create jobs for millions of workers. People rarely ask 'at what cost?'.

I have had a differing view on the progress of consumer goods for some time.

I feel that some things are just too cheap, and don't reflect the real cost.

Take my hifi. Some of it dates back over 20 years, and granted some of it might have been considered expensive at the time. But when I have a problem with part of it, I seek to get it repaired and maintained. This creates a demand for local goods and service.

If I had taken the approach of some of my relatives, I would have bought a cheap music system 20 years ago, and probably replaced it 4 or 5 times since then.

Neither approach is perfect, but which one produces less landfill, and encourages reuse of existing goods?

When I suggest there's an imbalance some people comment that I'm adopting a protectionist stance. I don't think I am, just that we haven't found the right balance yet.

Martinslovechild

If I could just interject with another point...

It's fair to say that people are often labelled 'bulls' or 'bears', but I don't believe that it's quite so clear-cut as that.

For instance, between 2003-07 I would have happily called myself a 'bull'. My stock market investments were doing very well, my house was acruing in value and job security wasn't even a consideration.

I've been reading lots of books about economics since about 2003 and the one thing that they all said was that there would be a dramatic shock to the economy and global stock markets at some point between 2007-2009.

As a result, in 2007, I turned quite bearish. My outlook was not necessarily fully pessimistic, but I was certainly on the lookout to minimise or eradicate my debts, have a 'Plan B' should I lose my job and start acruing some savings if the worst should happen.

People in 2007 whom I spoke with about this thought that I was absolutely barking: "House Price Crash? No way - supply and demand will keep it going upwards" was the immediate response. It was the same with discussions regarding the economy & stock markets.

Let's face it - so many people rejected the argument that there would be a severe downturn anytime soon that they started to believe that maybe it wouldn't happen, for all of the reasons their friends & colleagues were telling them. Even the papers believed it. As I said earlier - the 'commodities supercycle' and 'detachment of China from the U.S. downturn' etc.

Of course, in retrospect, people now know that they should maybe have listened a little more, maybe opened their eyes perhaps, but it's already too late for some unfortunately.

There are always those people whose lives are ruined by an economic downturn such as the one we're in now. I don't blame them for saying that they didn't see it coming, but I do blame people for not doing more research several years ago when a friend told them that ill winds are on their way; this may have prevented their downfall now.