Breeding our Dog

UKTigerlily

suki1964 wrote: »

And at the end of the day the dog is the dog - ie stud, so the pups dont belong to you to advertise.

What happens is the owner of the !!!!! she wants to put to pup studies the top specimens of the breed shes interested in, finds a stud who fits her criteria and pays a stud fee. The pups belong to her.

Now back street breeders - as you will be known as, often get the choice of "pick of the litter" in lieu of stud fees. Which means you get one pup.

Now if you are wanting the litter to sell on for fiancial purposes then you have to own the !!!!!. For fiancial gain, the only way you are going to make any money is go the whole hog of back street breeding and churn out litters twice a year - breeding the !!!!! into exhaustion.

Now even if you owned the !!!!! and you genuinely want pups for family members, have you really got up to 8 family members comitted to taking on a pup or can you in your circumstances afford to take on 8 pups yourself? Can you afford the medical checks before you even think about breeding? Can you afford the medical costs which are high before anything goes wrong - astronomical if things go wrong? Can you commit to hand feeding a litter every four hours if need be?

Reading your other posts on this forum, you have to forgive us for thinking you are looking for a cash cow cos belive me, from what you have posted you cannot afford to breed for any other reason then financial gain and you wont be getting any guidence for that here on this board from the regular posters

Well said & totally agree

foreign_correspondent

... just to flag up - hip scores and medical checks cost money but are vitally important - look at this dog, who is undoubtedly the result of uninformed or careless breeding...

http://www.labrador-lifeline.co.uk/category-s/80.htm

Luckily, poor Minnie has the support of a labrador charity, whose volunteers will have no doubt fundraised long and hard to pay for her medical care - yet another example of rescues struggling under the burden of irresponsible breeding.

Have you thought about volunteering for a labrador rescue if you are interested in doing more with the breed? One has been looking for homecheck volunteers recently... perhaps, as a labrador owner and no doubt, enthusiast, you could help them?

Frugalista

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

... just to flag up - hip scores and medical checks cost money but are vitally important - look at this dog, who is undoubtedly the result of uninformed or careless breeding...

http://www.labrador-lifeline.co.uk/category-s/80.htm

Luckily, poor Minnie has the support of a labrador charity, whose volunteers will have no doubt fundraised long and hard to pay for her medical care - yet another example of rescues struggling under the burden of irresponsible breeding.

Totally agree that this is a very sad story, however, I have read the link and cannot find anywhere that this dog is the result of irresponsible breeding - please could you show me where it says that. Thanks.

To the OP - No, you absolutely shouldn't be breeding from your dog, and you certainly shouldn't even be considering it without having his hips, eyes and elbows tested first. If you can't or won't invest the £200+ in having that done, you shouldn't advertise him at stud anyway - to do so would be negligent and we are living in an increasingly litigious society.

Happily, I doubt that anybody would be interested in him as a potential stud as labradors are ten a penny and a fully health checked male won't live too far away. As others have said - contact his breeder. If he was sold as a pet then that is what he should remain. Tell all your friends/family who are wanting one just like him to either contact his breeder or Labrador Rescue - bet you they all find they didn't really want one after all.

foreign_correspondent

Frugalista wrote: »

Totally agree that this is a very sad story, however, I have read the link and cannot find anywhere that this dog is the result of irresponsible breeding - please could you show me where it says that. Thanks

You are quite right, it does not say that, and I may be making an assumption, based on the facts that the condition they are describing sounds to me like very bad hip dysplasia... http://www.animalhealthcare.com/handouts/dogs/chd.htm which is common in labs but only occurs in dogs with a genetic pre-disposition for it. For this pup's hips to be so poor suggests either careless or ill informed breeding, perhaps for generations.

However, I think overall we agree here. For a change :rotfl:

Frugalista

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

You are quite right, it does not say that, and I may be making an assumption (that's what I thought ), based on the facts that the condition they are describing sounds to me like very bad hip dysplasia... http://www.animalhealthcare.com/handouts/dogs/chd.htm which is common in labs but only occurs in dogs with a genetic pre-disposition for it. For this pup's hips to be so poor suggests either careless or ill informed breeding, perhaps for generations. Or inappropriate diet, or trauma, or just being the unlucky one affected out of the entire litter from tested parents (it happens).

However, I think overall we agree here. For a change :rotfl:

I think you will find that, sadly, there are quite a number of things we agree on :rolleyes:. Unfortunately, some people on these forums take everything as gospel, and I just wanted to be clear that this wasn't actually fact - rather just your interpretation.:D

Milford_Cubicle

Please visit www.labradorforums.co.uk
There are some very very knowledgeable breeders on there who will offer you help and advice, plus you can read hundreds of posts which will assist you.
You get five 'free' posts on there before you have to pay a tenner subs.

lostinrates

This week I am off to Crufts, not taking my own dogs this year but a friends. My friend has been in her breed for over twenty five years, is a respected judge and breeder and her dogs are healthy dogs in a healthy breed and this year her sole litter of puppies stuck and stuck. She's left with two.

My mother bred dogs a of a different breed and gave up because it was both too expensive (again, no profit) and time consuming in her retirment, and she wanted to enjoy her dogs as pets and as abreed, no longer critquing them quite so hard. I have my first dog of a different breed, her mother has a very impressive international record and her breeder and I think my girl might be even better...but I don't think I'll be having a litter, because its a large breed and I admit ignorance of the lines that I haven't researched because of their direct relevance to my girl and I'd be relying on the breeder to guide me with choosing a stud, and its a decision I'm not prepared to relinquish responsibilty for. I too have a queue of people begging for one of my dog-dog's pups. Her breeder loves us as we are a good advert for her excellently bred dogs.

A good breeder knows all the major lines, and most of the minor ones!, in their breed, and any physical or character traits associated with them, and any health problems that recur. A good breeder keeps up to date with relevant developments in veterinary research and nutritional research that is particularly relevent to their breed. Most good breeders also show, which is also expensive. Peer review of your stock might not be perfect but its one of the measures we have to breed quality, healthy animals. I always note which prefix is appearing in veteran classes, and which are notably absent. I go to my dog's breeder, and another breeder I respect for advice about food, health etc far more often than I go to the vet, as their years and years of experience with their breeds is more specialised than most vets, and while they will never contradict a vet they are occasionally able to direct the vet to appropriate research papers.

Its not generally profitable and done for passion for a breed. If you are very serious why not talk to the person who bred your dog and get their opinion on your boy? If they think he is breeding stabndard (and he is no less wonderful if he is not) and offers somethng their own stud cannot they might even ask to use him. Breeders often take no payment for stud service's, as mentioned above sometimes taking a pup.

Very good breeders are sufering with the (not wrong) BBC documentary on poor breeding, the loss of sonsership for Crufts and also the increase in costs for things like tripe. It is my dearest wish that all breeders, show or working pedigrees and otherwise, require licencing and vet checks annually in the future, not because I think breeding is worng but because it comes with a huge amount of responsibilities and moral requirements.



ETA; whether you are allowed to breed depends on a couple of things. Firstly your contract with the breeder: was nuetering/not breeding part of that. Breeders commonly do require that sold dogs are not used for breeding. Secondly, in the two breeds I am involved with it is possible to put a 'limit' on the dogs and the offspring of these dogs, are I believe, not registerable. This is both to stop pups that are not breeding/show quality producing offspring but also to stop inexperienced owners setting up as back yard breeders. I do not know if this is universal though.

faye6174

Wow, this subject has certainly got a lot of you going! Some have provided some really useful advice and made points that I had not considered before. Others have seen fit to vilify and patronise me on my situation which they clearly know nothing about.

On the face of things I was not actually keen on breeding my beloved dog, it was more my OH who was keen to ‘let him have a litter’ the mere fact that it may change his wonderful temperament is enough to put a lid on it.
Never was I intending to profit from the breeding (only to make sure no one else was able to, i.e. backstreet breeders which have been mentioned - not made clear in my op but didn’t want to waffle) the pick of the litter would have sufficed.

My dog has been health checked FTR and does come from excellent breeding stock with a good hip score. I will be contacting my breeder and referring those who love my doggie to him. I can assure you that I am indeed a very responsible dog owner, which is why I have sought advice on the subject rather than go ahead regardless. Obviously those of you who have seen fit to criticise me were born with the knowledge they now have and never had to ask for help from anyone. Lucky you.

foreign_correspondent

faye6174 wrote: »

Wow, this subject has certainly got a lot of you going! Some have provided some really useful advice and made points that I had not considered before. Others have seen fit to vilify and patronise me on my situation which they clearly know nothing about.

On the face of things I was not actually keen on breeding my beloved dog, it was more my OH who was keen to ‘let him have a litter’ the mere fact that it may change his wonderful temperament is enough to put a lid on it.
Never was I intending to profit from the breeding (only to make sure no one else was able to, i.e. backstreet breeders which have been mentioned - not made clear in my op but didn’t want to waffle) the pick of the litter would have sufficed.

My dog has been health checked FTR and does come from excellent breeding stock with a good hip score. I will be contacting my breeder and referring those who love my doggie to him. I can assure you that I am indeed a very responsible dog owner, which is why I have sought advice on the subject rather than go ahead regardless. Obviously those of you who have seen fit to criticise me were born with the knowledge they now have and never had to ask for help from anyone. Lucky you.

I think you have made a wise decision there, glad you asked.

People do feel passionately about this issue, because of the ethical dimension - it's hard not to when you are fully aware of all the lovely dogs who are due to be put to sleep because there are more good dogs than good homes in the country!

In pounds up and down the country there are dogs who are due to be put to sleep in the next few days, many of them are lovely dogs who are there through no fault of their own, and who could easily be rehomed if homes were available.

Ultimately, people not breeding 'for the sake of it' could resolve some of the over-population issue, so please understand the reasons why people feel so strongly.

Best wishes,

fc

p.s. these are the ones on death row this week from just one town, Rochdale - http://www.rochdale-dog-rescue.com/urgentdogs.html

all these dogs have recently been picked up by the dog warden in west yorkshire and need new homes asap.. what a range of pedigrees, cross breeds and pups - including a handsome black lab
http://www.lostdogsyorkshire.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=693608

suki1964

And that last post is full of contradictions to your first post

"pick of the litter would have sufficed" versus "have a queue of family members wanting a pup and how do I advertise those left over"

I did say to you in my first post - here was not the place to pose such a question.

As pointed out - you have a dog - you wont be owning any litters to advertise. And you dog wont be head hunted by breeders unless hes proven to be top of his breed.

I think everyone here who responded has given very useful advice and made points you havent thought of. But I guess what you mean is some people have told you what you wanted to hear where as others havent