LHA evict or a second chance ?

bambammy

You try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I bought a BTL 3 bedroom semi detached property almost two years ago at £105'000 (next door now has their 4 bedroom fixed price £95'000) I decided to allow a DWP tenant take the lease, knowing not all DWP tenants are defiant. My choice was wrong and it's now a hindrance.


Back in October when she moved in, I agreed I would accept £550 a month as apposed to the £600advertised , and the tenant agreed to pay £50 a month and that £12.50 a week was a small price to pay to live in a 3 bedroom semi detached property than her flat.

I was flexible with her regarding the deposit, her partner has a disability and they have two children. She paid £200 twice and still hasn't fronted up the £150 to complete the deposit.

My interest only mortgage on the property is £549 a month and I have a bank loan which paid for the deposit of the house £349 a month. I realise my bank loan is not the tenants issue. I also realise the mistake I made with buying it. Hindsight is great.

She gives me what LHA states she's entitled to for her two bedroom entitlement £115 week. She makes no effort to pay the £50 a month and is full of excuses.

Since moving in, they have removed and installed draft proofing, without asking, don't pay the rent on time and I have to chase her for it every fortnight, blocked the toilet with nappies, the back garden has an old washing machine, mattress and about 20 black bags full of rubbish, and her son on Friday the 13th, when up fixing the blocked toilet drainage, I witnessed him push the kitchen door so hard it took it off it hinges. Luckily my partner fixed both. Afterwards, the tenant stated, if the toilet thing happens again, i'll just do what your partner done......oh lord jesus christ. He thinks he can open up pipes on the building. He's disabled, my partner has building trade skills.

I took photographs of the door and the mess in the back garden on my mobile.

They have that attitude, as if I'm the council and it's ok, cause the landlord will fix it. I'm going to send her a letter referring to section 2 of the lease, sub section 2.1 + 2.3+ 2.5+ 2.8. and ask her to call me with an appropriate time for an inspection once a fortnight. I'm dreading the thought of seeing up stairs. All 3 rooms have fitted mirrored wardrobes

I hate the thought of putting them and their children in a predicament but they have no respect for the property or me. Do I give the couple a chance or do I start with proceedings to remove them ?

BettyDebt

Remove! You've been fair and helped them out and they have no regard for that or for your property. Cut your losses now before it's too late.

Hope everything works out ok!

bambammy

It's so infuriating! She hasn't even been in for 6 months yet.

Initially she had with her , her upstanding, respectively spoken mother with her on viewing the property. They both sang a pretty tune. Admittedly though, she was the only tenant who asked questions and was interested in the area, schools, transport links etc.

I then chatted with the couple at length and explained the new system and gave them time to go away and think about it.

The other DWP people who viewed it never really looked at the property properly, and bells rang when their only interest was the LHA payment. I'm convinced from the questions I asked, some of these people know the system that well, it's just another way to earn some money for a few months until the gruelling task of removing them takes place.

I'm waiting on my accountant replying to me with regards to finances etc....I've read many landlord books, web sites sites etc and if I recall correctly - she can refused to leave and then I've got a few months of being screwed around before she will be removed?

I'm thinking I would be better getting the LHA paid to me direct before I start proceedings ? That way if she decides after I start proceedings, not to pay me her LHA...I'm not housing someone for free and at a loss ?

I also recall there's a legal way of moon lighting them out, but I just hate the thought of resorting to those tactics, and also, it would be a case of their word against mines.

Some stupid people listen to the wrong people and I'll guarantee some daft t.w.a.t has told her, I've not got a hope in hell of evicting her. Apart from her t.w.a.t friends, her mother indicated knowledge of the laws stating she had a holiday home.

mitchaa

Evict.

I suppose hindsight is a wonderful thing and you are partly to blame for accepting 'DSS' tenants, but cut your losses now. I suspect the £400 deposit will not be anywhere near enough to repair the damage that they will leave and i also suspect that you will be left out of pocket once you choose to evict and they stop paying their rent.

Properly vet your tenants, professional couples only next time

Good luck.

bambammy

I knew that deep down myself, but at that point I just got desperate, stealing from Peter to Pay Paul etc...and needed to get the mortgage covered.

The letting agent wasn't advertising my property properly at the time either and I'm was so fed up living on credit cards :-( , the catch up, interest and build up on the c/cards are still killing me.

I hope the accountant can give me some light at the end of the tunnel.

Just going to ring the council now and hopefully get LHA direct sorted first.

Could I ask, if and when the council start paying me....and I start proceedings, can the tenant ask the council to revert the LHA payments back to them the tenant ? and stop paying me direct.

kunekune

I doubt you could do fortnightly inspections ... That would be intrusive, and not a reasonable clause in the lease.

BettyDebt

I don't really know anything about tenancy laws, DSS or evictions etc so can't help you there. All I know is unfortunately it's the risk taken with rental properties and always advisable to be in a position to cover the outgoings should the property remain empty. I appreciate that, that is not always the case - best intentions and all that. Can you speak to the LHA to find out what you can do. Whether than can offer support?

I suspect fornightly inspections are not reasonable. I assume you have a tenancy agreement signed? A clause when they need to pay deposits by etc etc. Most importantly whatever you do - do it in writing!

Smi1er

I would say you are achieving a good rent at £500pm.

Never expect a DSS tenant to make up the rent, they won't.

I really don't see the issue with the draft proofing? Nor the contenst a of the back garden. It's their home, not yours

Why were you sorting out the blocked toilet? You should simply tell them that they should organised for it to be unblocked, and that if turns out to be a structurial fault then you will settle the bill, otherise it's down to them.

You don't seem to be someone who is prepared for the letting game... perhaps time to cut your losses and sell on?

tbs624

bambammy wrote: »

You try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I bought a BTL 3 bedroom semi detached property almost two years ago at £105'000 (next door now has their 4 bedroom fixed price £95'000) I decided to allow a DWP tenant take the lease, knowing not all DWP tenants are defiant. My choice was wrong and it's now a hindrance.

You're having a rough time with your tenant but to describe all those tenants in receipt of LHA as "defiant" is ridiculous and an insult to all those claimants who are reliable Ts . Some LLs like to dress up their action in letting to HB/LHA claimants as some sort of philanthropic gesture but the reality is that some BTL LLs see accepting HB/LHA tenants as some form of easy "cash cow ", which will mean the state effectively guaranteeing to cover their mortgage interest costs for them. You've discovered that it's not that easy.

bambammy wrote: »

My interest only mortgage on the property is £549 a month and I have a bank loan which paid for the deposit of the house £349 a month. I realise my bank loan is not the tenants issue. I also realise the mistake I made with buying it. Hindsight is great.

and that hindsight will help you realise that even at 600pcm you would have been struggling to properly fund this BTL.

bambammy wrote: »

They have that attitude, as if I'm the council and it's ok, cause the landlord will fix it.

That's what being a LL is about - you *do* have to sort out problems at the property and you do also say you don't want the T doing it themselves. However, if the problem has been caused by the T's acts or omissions, such as shoving disposable nappies down the drains or swinging on cupboard doors, then you are entitled to ask them to pay the costs of putting things right.

bambammy wrote: »

I'm going to send her a letter referring to section 2 of the lease, sub section 2.1 + 2.3+ 2.5+ 2.8. and ask her to call me with an appropriate time for an inspection once a fortnight.

In E & W there is an implied covenant that a T will allow the LL access to view the condition of the property so that the LL can meet their "repairing obligations" under the LL &T Act 1985 but a T can refuse you access.Similarly in Scotland a LL has to give notice if they need to inspect or carry out repairs. Demanding once a fortnight inspections may see you receiving a sharply worded letter on the perils of tenant harassment, from a lawyer or housing adviser acting on your T's behalf. This is especially likely to be the case if you also try to resort to tactics such as"moon lighting them out". Tenant harassment is a criminal offence - see The Rent (Scotland) Act 1984 under which it is an offence for a LL to do anything which is likely to interfere with a T's peace or comfort (see also Housing (Scotland) Act 1988)

bambammy wrote: »

I'm dreading the thought of seeing up stairs. All 3 rooms have fitted mirrored wardrobes

Most LLs would tell you that mirrorred wardrobes are not the best bet for a tenanted property.........

bambammy wrote: »

Do I give the couple a chance or do I start with proceedings to remove them ?

You need to write a formal letter to the Ts, giving them a statement of their rent due dates and actual rent paid to date, and give them a firm date by which you would like the arrears cleared. Explain in the letter that allowing arrears to build up /being persistently late with the rent can lead to their eviction. Unfortunately, if your T seeks advice they will learn that they may effectively defeat a repossession action by paying off some of the arrears immediately prior to a court hearing. Also mention in the letter about the recent repairs issues and suggest that the T puts the mattress & the washing machine at the front of the property and arranges for the council to remove it.

You do have to stand back a bit as a LL because you cannot dictate how your Ts choose to live - you can only ask that they return the property in the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy, fair wear & tear excepted, and that they pay for any damage done.

Join a local/national LL association for some moral support and good advice- the membership fees can be set against rental income for tax purposes.

silvercar

Once they owe 2 months rent you can write to the council and get the rent paid directly to you. The council won't pay anything over and above their maximum and pay 4 weekly in arrears. Omce you get used to that system it should mean that you won't be more than 8 weeks + top ups in arrears.

bambammy

Thank you everyone for your replies. I always appreciate the input help and advice.

Fair comment and knew I would probably have to take the £600 yearly loss.

The draft proofing. It's more the lack of respect, I expect they should run it by me first, and it would not have been a problem, it's just draft proofing after all. That to I discovered on the 13/14th Feb.

There's certain jobs around the house if needing done, I would prefer my partner who can access many favours within his industry circle to deal with the jobs, as apposed to DIY attempts and tenants was made aware of this from the start. To no financial loss to them, my interest in maintaining the property to the best standard and I can't see the point in them not snapping this up. When they leave, I will no doubt have to get someone in to do it again, properly.

The rubbish which was scattered everywhere, until I seen it on the 13th Feb. Next door is unhappy and they feel it's deterring potential buyers from their property.

The plumber issue. On Friday evening around 5.30pm when they texted me.I voiced to them, that they should be ringing a plumber etc, they asked me to go down, I elaborated if it was toys, toilet roll...etc blocking it they would have to pay the plumber. They said no, they weren't calling a plumber. What could I do ? They knew by calling me down I would not walk away with such a present problem with my property.

They also slipped up indicating the blockage was down to them ( nappies ) and it'd been like that for a few days and could not pay a plumber. I spent the whole evening on the phone and running back and forward to different DIY stores getting different products, and spent nearly £40 trying to unblock it. My partner who was at the other side of the country arrived on the Saturday and fixed it. Along with the kitchen door, which has a chunk of the door out if it, removed and replaced the hinges and put it back on. I can only imagine they will not pay for the door, when they never put their hand in their pocket when I gave them the receipts on the 14th.

Also, the fact that this disabled guy wants to start taking Stanly knifes and blades to the outside pipe if blockage happens again, rings - screeching high pitch levels bells for me. Maybe my expectations are to high ?

I was as prepared as much as I thought I could be, but yes your right, I never realised just how vast it can get. Due to my medical disorder, I viewed property as an option to aid the family financially when unable to work or unable to keep a steady job because of medical issues.

Luckily so far, job wise, I've always landed on my feet, and when there's a will there's a way, I do and always try my best, but that's not always going to be the case, especially as I get older.

Smi1er wrote: »

I really don't see the issue with the draft proofing? Nor the contenst a of the back garden. It's their home, not yours

Why were you sorting out the blocked toilet? You should simply tell them that they should organised for it to be unblocked, and that if turns out to be a structurial fault then you will settle the bill, otherise it's down to them.

You don't seem to be someone who is prepared for the letting game... perhaps time to cut your losses and sell on?