Housepricecrash.co.uk & MSE

Walter_J

I've been a contributor to HPC for many years and have learned an awful lot from the more thoughtful posters there.

The whole credit crunch and resultant crisis was predicted there in detail long before anyone in the mainstream was aware that anything was amiss. For instance, the problems with Northern Rock were being diiscussed on HPC a good year before anything made the headlines.

Most people on HPC agree that the current world crisis was caused by banks lending to people who couldn't or wouldn't repay the debt. The first symptom of the resulting problem was a bubble in house prices - hence the existance of HPC as a house price forum.

Consequently, many on HPC have a disdain for banks and people who borrow too much money and don't pay it back. Unfortunately, this disdain sometimes bubbles over into ridicule of debtors who get into difficulties.

I do not find this an attractive thing. Even less attractive though IMO, is the nauseating spectacle of MSE posters calling each other 'Hun' and giving (((hugs))) to f eckless idiots who seem to expect sympathy for running up credit card bills of tens of thousands which they spent on tat.

Dan:_4

Dooooooooooooooonut wrote: »

It would be better if debtors were treated reasonably harshly and unpleasantly while their issues are fixed. It wouldn't feel nice for the debtor but seeing this would help to discourage others from debt.

Same thing goes or single teenage mothers, people on benefits, etc etc. Had this happened before although some people would have had a rotten time through no fault of their own the vast majority of us would be happier if only because we would never have got into that state.

Sometimes opprobrium is a good thing.

Sorry but I don’t agree.

It takes a long time to sort out your debt problems, it's not going to happen overnight. If someone's looking for advice and support and all they get is !!!!!! and repeatedly told what a complete loser they are for getting into such a state - then they will not hang around for long.

They already know they have been an idiot, otherwise they wouldn't be posting on the DFW board - they do not need to be told this.

I think the DFW board is excellent and encourages people to face up to debt problems - this is something HPC would not do.

Dan:_4

Dooooooooooooooonut wrote: »

Differentiate the individual debtor from society as a whole. I tend to agree that the debtor will do better given constructive advice and lots of (((hugs)))... but if people see this there'll be ten times as many debtors and a hundred times as many bankrupts. Which is better? For me the answer is quite obvious: many fewer debtors having a pretty unpleasant time.

Every debtor is having an unpleasant time, that is normally how they discover MSE/DFW. The fact that these debtors receive support (be it advice or virtual hugs) does not encourage others to run up debt.

lostinrates

Dooooooooooooooonut wrote: »

Differentiate the individual debtor from society as a whole. I tend to agree that the debtor will do better given constructive advice and lots of (((hugs)))... but if people see this there'll be ten times as many debtors and a hundred times as many bankrupts. Which is better? For me the answer is quite obvious: many fewer debtors having a pretty unpleasant time.

But surely its possible to be firm, contructive and frank without being unpleasant/unkind?

If people fear facing up to their debts they are surely less willing to face them?

Don't get me wrong...I don't think ((((hugs)))) and 'it wasn't your fault' is an appropriate -or helpful-response, but I think helping people face what is real, what is now appropriate and what is right is.

setmefree2

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

Here's some threads from HPC

Lost Me Job

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=97205

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=101955&st=45

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=97214&st=0&p=1505924&#entry1505924

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=104246&pid=1668583&start=0&#entry1668583

I think the HPC posters are being too harsh on the huggy MSE types.

These 4 posts above show that anyone can lose their job, so anyone can find themselves in difficulties, whether they've been reckless or not. Unemployment is going to rise by at least another million- so imho there are going to be lots of hugs needed.

Laughing at other people's misfortunes as a pastime is sick. So cruising the MSE boards looking for tales of woe to share with your HPC buddies is very low behaviour. Would they like it if the tables were turned?

Blunty

mizzbiz wrote: »

Besides, the derision that has made it's way onto this board in the past months is of much more concern than HPC.

Well said, mizzbiz.

I'm a long-time visitor (and recent poster) to both sites. I suspect the increase in hostilities of late is a symptom of the real tension that is developing in society as the depression starts to bite. Hundreds of thousands of people have bought property over the past five years, many of whom are heading for negative equity pretty quickly, if they're not already in it. I'd be feeling pretty tense about that, too - and I speak from personal experience from the last house price crash. I was a typical DINKY (remember them?) - and also quite naïve about the housing market. Well, I'm older and wiser now, and am happy to take views from MSE and HPC before I sleepwalk into another mistake.

Too many people have financed a lifestyle way above their means through equity release or maxxing credit cards and unsecured loans. Yes, they'll be feeling nervous just now, and places like MSE offer practical advice on how to make lifestyle shifts that might just lead to a change in the way we view debt. HPC, meanwhile, offers a lot of cogent analysis that suggests that just now might not be a good time to buy a house (if you can help it). You can hardly blame some of the more militant HPC'ers from crowing when they meet someone who thinks that house prices 'can only ever go up', and seem to find it difficult to deal with reality interfacing with their world view.

It's a brave man who'd accuse Bill Blunt of being a fence-sitter. But, just for now, I'm happy to continue visiting both sites. If it means ignoring the prejudice and bile of a group of people who think life owes them a living based on permanent debt, and who feel that houses are 'investments', rather than somewhere to live, then so be it. I can manage that.

setmefree2

Blunty wrote: »

If it means ignoring the prejudice and bile of a group of people who think life owes them a living based on permanent debt, and who feel that houses are 'investments', rather than somewhere to live, then so be it. I can manage that.

But plenty of these types will keep their jobs and plenty of careful types will become unemployed and find themselves struggling financially. Whether, you have been "good" or "bad" depending on your criteria of goodness or badness won't make any difference. Life's not fair.

Running_Horse

What will HPC call itself when prices start to rise again?

Generali

Running_Horse wrote: »

What will HPC call itself when prices start to rise again?

Onanists Anonymous?

ad9898_3

Running_Horse wrote: »

What will HPC call itself when prices start to rise again?

It will probably die a bit of slow death as the economy turns round and the STR's move out. Although it could stay in 'denial' and turn into 'The Singing Pig'** forum of tomorrow.



** Has anyone been over there, I recommend it if you want a few laughs.;)