If things get tougher?

Caterina

Hi all

What an interesting turn this thread has taken!

I am 51, when I was in my late 20s I wanted ONE child, when I got pregnant I got 2 at once (not my choice but delighted nevertheless).

I understand too well the issue about wanting a child as a fashion accessory, after working several years as a doula I have met a fair number of high-flying businesswomen who had their child(ren) and ferried him/her/them into full time childcare virtually from the day they were born. Why have children then?

On the other hand I have also seen very high-flying women just drop out of the corporate world and return to the human family, by virtue of the love they felt for their child.

I also know a number of women who choose not to have children and are perfectly fulfilled, as well as a few who cannot have children and would do anything to have a baby.

Humanity, we are all different, all choices are valid IMHO.

Re. vasectomy LOL my first words to DH after coming out of a horrendous c-section after having the twins was "You are going to have a vasectomy!" - never managed to persuade him unfortunately but struggled with contraception for all these years - when you drop them in multiple numbers you do not take chances!

Re. comments about maternity leave and flexitime for mothers - please spare a thought about what it is like to have to hold down two jobs, one the usual 9-5 (or whatever hours) and the other on top of the first one, 24/7 as a mother. Not an easy job at all, NOT A HOLIDAY!!! So many mothers I know return to work TO HAVE A BREAK!

Let's be tolerant with other women's choices and rejoice for those who can get a little break please, there is already so much hardship put on women in general by society (patriarchal etc. don't start me on my feminist soapbox please!), let's as women be kind to our sisters.

Love to all

Caterina

Bobbykins

^^^^^what Catarina said!^^^^^

Wonderful post Catarina, :T :T :T :T I couldn't agree more. I respect and support every woman's right to make her own choices on this issue.

ceridwen

Softstuff wrote: »

I'd never thought Marie Stopes was here... I'm on the site now and might consider getting me "fixed" rather than the other half.
EDIT: it appears sterilisation is only by referral from your GP. In my case, he's irish, catholic and has already told me he can't understand why any woman would want to.
Vasectomy it is then!

I don't know if things are different in Australia then - back decades ago in England my G.P. didnt even come into the picture - thought never crossed my mind. I had asked for the NHS to do it and been refused - for never having had any children yet. I asked the Nuffield Hospital and was shocked by the price they had in mind and there was some sorta hassle or other (think that might have been them requiring a GP referral - he would have done it okay no problem - but I just didnt see the point of any more hassle than I could help.)

Marie Stopes - on the other hand - no problem at all. They said they wanted an initial consultation with me, then do the operation subsequently. I said I lived elsewhere in the country and was told "okay - we'll do them both on the same visit then". They had a talk with me and then got on with it. I don't think my GP was even mentioned - my action, my decision. He only realised when I turned up subsequently at his surgery to have the stitches taken out - he took them out, told me off for having walked to his surgery and called me a taxi home. Done and dusted.

Perhaps you could try changing GP. Have you checked with Australian Marie Stopes whether they actually require GP referral anyway? (point out that I didnt need it 3 decades ago in england - you have my permission).

little_miss_moneysaver_3

The issue of having children will always spark a debate between all of the different views and beliefs in our society. Whilt it seems that our country is overpopulated this is for more reasons than a few women who choose (or are surprised) to have more than 2.4 children. In this we have to consider we attract an influx of migrants, for many reasons. We have to respect people's beliefs when it comes to this, some cultures expect large families, some do not want any. It is not our place to judge here on MSE. But instead support each other to maintain our families by swapping tips, stories etc so we can all give our families no matter how big or how small, the best we can on the resources we have.

Just thought i'd add my 2pence worth.

LMMS

Olliebeak

Before I got married, in 1972, I never thought for a million years that I would have children. Having had problems with irregular periods from day 1, I always thought I would actually have trouble conceiving. How wrong I was!

My eldest was born 9 mths and 1 day after I was married - induced by the hospital due to high blood pressure. What a shock to my system he was - but I took to motherhood quite well (for somebody who hadn't been planning to have children). Determined not to have any more, I went on the pill for 5 years. When No.1 started school at Easter 1978, I got a great job working in a school (school hours and term times!) but a new GP refused to give me the pill any longer (said I needed a break from it). Jan 1979 No.2 arrived on the scene! Moved house twice in 1979, didn't get registered with a new GP and guess what - yup! - new house, new baby - No.3 arrived in March 1980! Have to admit that main priority was to be sterilised after the last one as it had finally dawned on me that I was very highly fertile - despite my earlier concerns about having possible problems conceiving !.

My point is that, I didn't plan to have children, but nature just took it's course and I got 3 great ones. I turned out to be a pretty good mother - now I've got 5 grandchildren - and they reckon I'm not a bad 'Narnie' either .

If anybody had told me, before I got married, how many children I would finish up with and that at 57 I would be minding grandchildren most weekends, I would have run a mile. I thought I knew what I wanted out of life, but it turned out that I was very wrong indeed. What I got was far better .

I do believe that every woman has the right to choose how many children to have, but along with that goes the very serious responsibility for their future welfare. Kids are a bit like that puppy advert - not just for babyhood, they're for life - theirs, yours, your granchildren's.

ceridwen

kittie wrote: »

wow. This woman is inspirational. I couldn`t do it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1086413/The-REAL-Green-Goddess-The-eco-friendly-granny-lived-cooked-food-heating--lightbulbs-35-years.html

Cor!!!! Steps back in amazement.....well she's welcome on my "Simplifying Life" thread any day:D

...errr...and I certainly couldnt do it either.

ceridwen

Having read the comments about how Softstuff may change her mind - I can sympathise with her....as I was on the receiving end of comments like it for many years (more than might be expected - as I didnt tell many people about the Op.). The comments only stopped once it became clear I was too old for starting in on motherhood. I have the impression Softstuff is as definite about this as I was/am.

I understand where people are coming from....but those comments positively infuriated me....until in the end I just decided to be philosophical about it and tell myself "Just goes to show how little they know me - as I'm someone who knows their own mind very well".

In that last 3 decades I have had not one single smidgen of regret EVER. The only regret I have is that I was made to pay for the Op - that I do regret very much and try not to remember that fact too often - as it makes me angry every time I think about the NHS making me pay like that. The deed itself was one of the wisest decisions I ever made. There are several major decisions about my life that I have made over the years - and every day I say "Thank goodness I made that decision" and that is one of them. It dealt with that issue once and for all - and I could get on with the rest of my life without any worries that my body might let me down - I'd locked and padlocked the door - it couldnt possibly:D I don't know whether my "hormones" might have started having a go at me if they "knew" there was a chance to get let loose - but the "hormones" "knew" very well that I myself had decided - so there was no room in the place for any ideas they might have - so there was never a whisper from them - guess they didn't see the point!

One of the (many) reasons I did this was precisely in case I ever got married - as I then anticipated a positive barrage of pressure would have been let loose on me by Society as a whole and my parents (who were longing to be grandparents) and I didn't want to take the risk of finding that a husband changed his mind about children AFTER we got married and tried pressurising me. With having done that - boyfriends knew at the outset that - whatever happened - there was absolutely no point in them even mentioning children to me ever (it didn't stop various men wanting to marry me:D ).

savingforoz

Absolutely spot on, Ceridwen. Us women who have decided against having children can get sick and tired of being given endless examples of how we might change our mind and become earth mothers. It really is very patronising. Like Ceridwen, I always knew my own mind and have no regrets. As Caterina so wisely said, let's respect each other's choices in life - sadly many people are unable to do that, it seems.

Pitlanepiglet

Hmm interesting, I fall into both camps I suppose. I am currently 39 years old and have never really got to a point in life where I thought I might want children. I love my niece and nephew and my god children dearly and I'm a fab auntie but I've never felt the need to take one of my own home! I've been in serious relationships since my very early twenties so the opportunity was always there.

I got together with now DH four and a half years ago, he is older than me and has adult children (and now a grandchild!) from previous relationships. He had a vasectomy after his children were born but the marriage failed and in his subsequent relationship he tried to have the vasectomy reversed but after several (private) attempts at surgery he and his then partner had to admit defeat which ruined her chances of having the children that she wanted and the relationship failed shortly afterwards.

Anyway, fast forward to now and to some extent it makes my decision for me BUT I have to say that whilst I have no hormonal urges to produce babies, as time goes by I do wonder whether I'm missing something and whether I'm making decisions now that I might regret in later life. I wonder how I might feel if I had chosen sterilisation in early life and whether it might be something I now regretted.

Plenty of people have told me that I should have children, plenty of people have told me I'll regret being "selfish" and not having children. I don't regard it as offensive or patronising, those people mainly want what is best for me and want me to be happy.

There is no real answer but I think there is a real risk that early sterilisation may lead to heartache, in the same way that my DH's vasectomy led to heartache for his ex.

ceridwen

Hi Pitlanepiglet

I see your points you are making. I guess your D.H.'s ex knew what she was getting though, in fairness, when she got together with your D.H. - ie a man who couldnt have children - but she still made the decision to get together with him. I dont know exactly what your D.H. was told at the time of the Op. I was told to all intents and purposes to regard it as irreversible - it was explained that there was a tiny tiny chance of reversing it later, should I change my mind subsequently - but it was very very tiny - so to forget it. Fair enough.

I used to get told I was "selfish" as well for not wanting children - you know - in hindsight I should have turned round and said "Spell out precisely why you think I'm selfish - dont just toss the word at me - tell me the reasons!!" - bet that would have soon shut them up. I honestly cant see why anyone could justify throwing that word at us - but it happens to us all....so don't take it personally.

The fact that you care about children and are a "fab auntie" doesnt necessarily mean you would want ones of your own - thats a whole different ballgame.

I dislike seeing children treated badly and if I had ever had children - then I think I would actually have been a pretty good mother actually.....I don't suppose for one minute they would have "lightened up" my distinctly serious/pessimistic temperament (I might be wrong) - but they would have had all the right physical care and attention and anyone who harmed a hair on their head would have had me to contend with (not a happy thought for the wrongdoer;) ) - but I simply didnt/don't want any of it. I didnt want pregnancy, I didnt want childbirth, I didnt want the bringing up the children themselves and a lot of the boyfriends I had didnt show much evidence of any likelihood of ever having a good enough income for even a pretty standard upbringing for children. I did have some seriously wealthy boyfriends - but actually they all came into the "thank goodness I didnt marry them" category and all except one of the wealthy ones would have been terrible fathers.:cool:

EDIT; hmmm....just realised that all equals "ceridwen is one incorrigible romantic - all those chances to get married...and never did..as she didnt meet The One"....and for my next sideline I'll start writing Mills & Boon romances...