DLA Appeal

Trasthmatic

jennymw wrote: »

sorry but i find this laughable...both EMP's who looked at me and my condition were so well trained they couldn't even put my name or NI number on any of the pages of their report...so who was the report about? Search me...they didnt know. They used medical terms without explanation...decision makers aren't medically qualified so they won't know what the terms mean.

This recent one i had admitted that with my condition there are NO PHYSICAL signs of disability...my joints don't swell, my muscles don't waste...i am still in severe muscle and joint pain to the point of tears. He has admitted that there are the condition has no signs and then proceeds to assess me as not needing help because there are no signs!!! How stupid is that!

They want you to think they are sending round a disability specialist but they are not. He concluded i could walk 150m...this is after seeing me walk 5m bent double and holding onto the wall for support...where does that come from?

He also didn't take any account of the other things that disable me other than joint and muscle pain such as having foggy brain...whenever i have tried to organise a meal i can't do it...i leave things on the ring and have almost caused fires; i burn myself because i can't concentrate properly; i have dropped boiling water on myself because my wrist gave way and that was holding a tiny pan with a bit of pasta in it for my son when my husband was out. WHat about the falls i have? Exacerbated by my medication which leaves me dizzy and drowsy etc? No account was taken of any of this.

They are not disability specialists....neither of those doctors knew anything about ME/CFS or how it disables me and stops me from living a normal life. They are just there to stop your benefit and cause you more stress by going to appeal for what you should rightfully receive. I have no faith in the system at all.

NOW they want me to reapply for my IB early because THEIR computers were down when i had my last IB assessment so they don't have a record of it! Luckily i do have a record so have sent them a copy of the report which gave me 58 points on physical disabilities and something like 19 on mental...because i was assessed at that time by someone who BELIEVED that ME/CFS exists and how restricting it is on my life.

For those of us suffering "invisible" diseases, we are soft targets for the Government in their campaign to get ill people back into work. It makes my life much more stressful and my illness worse.

Thats a coinicidence because I find your beleif in GP's and health care professionals who lie about peoples disability so they cant get DLA laughable.

jennymw

jennymw wrote: »

It's less lying for money; more incompetence and lack of care about understanding complex conditions which DO require specialist knowledge. For the doctors that visit you to assess DLA there is no relationship...they don't know or care for you...you are just a number on a form (or not if they can't be bothered to fill that in) and they treat you accordingly; they dont care if your life is made worse by their decision...they don't care if their assessment is full or fair.

Read what i said above...incompetence and uncaring attitudes...

jennymw

you state:

"The assessment given looks for specific signs that would lead to an impairment of mobility, the ability to self care or the need for supervision."

It might interest you to know that the specific guidance these doctors are given during "training" (LOL) is that impairment and disability are not the same thing and cannot be equated. Despite this, BOTH specially trained yet still completely incompetent doctors who came to assess me concentrated on "impairment" which is not visible in my illness and concluded from lack of visible impairment there was no disability. This is completely against the thorough specialist training they should have had in order to become "disability specialists" (LOL again...specialists in incompetence and nothing else).

My current refutation of the recent doctor's assessment runs to 10 pages so far and includes procedural errors, omission of details told to him (such as omitting the fact that i burn myself on the cooker when i try to cook...he wouldn't even look at my scar, and although he is entitled to disagree with my point that therefore cooking is dangerous for me (LOL) he is NOT supposed to leave out anything that he is told by either myself or my carer (once again evidence of his deep, specialist training).

This subject is very raw with me at the moment so i apologise if i come over a little frustrated...but fighting such incompetence and idiocy should be unnecessary for people who are already struggling with chronic illness.

I made a lot of points in my postings about specialists/GPs which you have given inconsistent views about (are they specialist or just GPs making a bit extra on the side?) which it would be good if you could address.

Could you also explain that if every disabled person is getting one of these wonderful disability specialists examine then, why do 70% of oral tribunal appeal hearings succeed? Obviously in 7/10 cases the medical information and therefore the decision based upon it is WRONG! when three independent people look at the details.

Blakespops

Trasthmatic wrote: »

What about when the appeal tribunal ask for an assessment, is that suspect?. Its the same pool of doctors that will do the examination. Some of them even sit on the tribunals as the medically qualified panel member.
You see the thng is, your own GP could well be an examining medical practitioner. Lots of GP's are. Do you think that your GP lies for money? Because thats pretty much what you are suggesting. People have been sued for stating a lot less than that.
Do you really believe that there is a conspiracy out there to stop disabled people getting money? Also if DLA dont pay for it who will?

I believe the people at DLA have been told by the government to cut back on who they award to and have got tighter guidelines and it is how they are being interprited and implimented that is in some cases unjust. reading the decision makers guide and the reports given by my own GP make it so they made a huge mistake, their own EMP report at one point says I can walk without problem or pain yet under another poin he stated I can " walk 500 meters in 10 minutes stopping every minute to allow pain to subside"

Now not every person at DLA or DR they send out can be classed as poor but looking at the many peoples complaints on here it has to be said that a large number of them seem to at best have selective hearing to the questions asked as the answers given share no relevance to what they have reported to the point at all.

maybe you should read my opening post and see exactly what was stated to them and you will maybe understand.

as for am I saying my GP lied for payment then no. My gp just stated the clinical facts along with the fact I had just been refered for possible surgery to attempt to relieve the pain.

Trasthmatic

jennymw wrote: »

you state:

"The assessment given looks for specific signs that would lead to an impairment of mobility, the ability to self care or the need for supervision."

It might interest you to know that the specific guidance these doctors are given during "training" (LOL) is that impairment and disability are not the same thing and cannot be equated. Despite this, BOTH specially trained yet still completely incompetent doctors who came to assess me concentrated on "impairment" which is not visible in my illness and concluded from lack of visible impairment there was no disability. This is completely against the thorough specialist training they should have had in order to become "disability specialists" (LOL again...specialists in incompetence and nothing else).

My current refutation of the recent doctor's assessment runs to 10 pages so far and includes procedural errors, omission of details told to him (such as omitting the fact that i burn myself on the cooker when i try to cook...he wouldn't even look at my scar, and although he is entitled to disagree with my point that therefore cooking is dangerous for me (LOL) he is NOT supposed to leave out anything that he is told by either myself or my carer (once again evidence of his deep, specialist training).

This subject is very raw with me at the moment so i apologise if i come over a little frustrated...but fighting such incompetence and idiocy should be unnecessary for people who are already struggling with chronic illness.

I made a lot of points in my postings about specialists/GPs which you have given inconsistent views about (are they specialist or just GPs making a bit extra on the side?) which it would be good if you could address.

Could you also explain that if every disabled person is getting one of these wonderful disability specialists examine then, why do 70% of oral tribunal appeal hearings succeed? Obviously in 7/10 cases the medical information and therefore the decision based upon it is WRONG! when three independent people look at the details.

You point out that disability and impairment are separate. Seeing as DLA is awarded for the needs arising from disability and not the disability itself this would appear to be correct training.
I never said that the EMP's were specialist is all conditions, I said that they were trained to assess people for the purpose of DLA.
I'll ask again, do you really think that medical professionals will purposely lie about peoples conditions in order to deny them a benefit?
Also the main reason why oral appeals are sucessful is that in 7 out of 10 cases evidence that was not available to the decision maker is presented at the hearing. And I really doubt that all cases brought before a tribunal have had a doctors assessment as you seem to be suggesting.

Trasthmatic

Blakespops wrote: »

as for am I saying my GP lied for payment then no. My gp just stated the clinical facts along with the fact I had just been refered for possible surgery to attempt to relieve the pain.

I'm not suggesting that your GP lied in your case. I'm asking that if your GP was an examining doctor do you really think that he/she would lie to deny people benefit?

Blakespops

Trasthmatic wrote: »

What about when the appeal tribunal ask for an assessment, is that suspect?. Its the same pool of doctors that will do the examination. Some of them even sit on the tribunals as the medically qualified panel member.
You see the thng is, your own GP could well be an examining medical practitioner. Lots of GP's are. Do you think that your GP lies for money? Because thats pretty much what you are suggesting. People have been sued for stating a lot less than that.
Do you really believe that there is a conspiracy out there to stop disabled people getting money? Also if DLA dont pay for it who will?

Who pays for judges? oh the same people who pay for the prossicuters yet they remain totally independant from eachother. and at times lock horns against eachother.

so may I enquire as to if your one of the Doctors who work for DLA or a decision maker, would explain why your arguments have rose tinted view on them. Either way you must accept that in any line of work even GP's you have rotten apples who if your unlucky to come in contact with them will give you a bad view on the next one you see.

my EMP report is so bad to read that my gp can not read it, welfare rights can not and neither can any person it has been shown to at best you can make out 20% of what was said. so how could decision maker manage to understand it and come to an informed decision on my claim?

Blakespops

Trasthmatic wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that your GP lied in your case. I'm asking that if your GP was an examining doctor do you really think that he/she would lie to deny people benefit?

I do not know my GP on a personal enough level to talk about their personal ethics

jennymw

Trasthmatic wrote: »

You point out that disability and impairment are separate. Seeing as DLA is awarded for the needs arising from disability and not the disability itself this would appear to be correct training.
I never said that the EMP's were specialist is all conditions, I said that they were trained to assess people for the purpose of DLA.
I'll ask again, do you really think that medical professionals will purposely lie about peoples conditions in order to deny them a benefit?
Also the main reason why oral appeals are sucessful is that in 7 out of 10 cases evidence that was not available to the decision maker is presented at the hearing. And I really doubt that all cases brought before a tribunal have had a doctors assessment as you seem to be suggesting.

If as i have said disability and impairment are separate, why aren't the examing so -called specialists examining me grasping this point...why are they equating lack of signs of impairment with lack of disability to do everyday tasks. I think you are confused here as you just quote what i say and say i am right....i know i am right...it is the doctors who aren't getting this right, not me!

If someone is sent to assess someone's disability and they know nothing about the disabling aspects of that person's disability, how can they give relevant information about how disabled that person is to a decision maker? As i have said, both doctors assessing me have made significant and fairly basic procedural errors and have shown complete and utter ignorance of my illness...and you think it's fair that someone like that should control whether i get the help i need? You think because they are allegedly disability specialists they must know what they are talking about? (what exactly do you mean? what is so specialised in them sitting across on the sofa from me, asking me repetetive questions that i filled in in full on the application form, and looking at my hands for signs of impairment WHICH THEY SHOULD KNOW will not be there because of the very nature of my illness and which they then go on to equate with lack of disability!!!!)

Most cases brought before a tribunal would be based on a doctor's report i would imagine...there are also many hundreds perhaps thousands of cases where sick people cannot face going through an appeal procedure to claim what should rightfully be theirs. We can all surmise on figures. The factual figure we DO have is that 7/10 appeals at tribunal oral hearings are held in the claimant's favour...you can decide if you appropriate that massive amount of wrong-decision making to the DM or to the doctors who provide the medical information for the DM. In either way, the system is incompetent and obviously not working if it gets AT LEAST 7/10 cases WRONG in the eyes of independent tribunals. ANyone getting 7/10 decisions at work wrong would rightfully be either sacked or retrained! How do you know the decisions are reversed at tribunal because new evidence is presented? The tribunal specifically has to look at the claimant's disability AT THE POINT OF THE CLAIM so it would unlikely that a large proportion of appeals would be succeeding on "new evidence".

jennymw

Trasthmatic wrote: »

I'll ask again, do you really think that medical professionals will purposely lie about peoples conditions in order to deny them a benefit?
quote]

Do you honestly think Doctors are some kind of super-race who are incapable of lying or of falsifying evidence if and when it suits them?

It is people who hold these views who make it difficult for people to challenge anyone "professional" because they are assumed to be better than anyone else...if you check the news you will find a policeman has been accused of raping a victim of rape and telling her "no-one will believe you because i am a policeman."

WHy have you got so much blind trust in the medical profession? Do you know my mum was tortured by one of them...when she was giving birth to my brother, she heard the midwives say he was a "transverse lie"; the doctor who they called told them he wanted to see her push before he did anything and he left her for agony for AN HOUR pushing impotently because transverse lie means lie across the womb with neither head nor legs presenting so it was PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for her to give birth. This was almost thirty years ago now when the litigation culture was unheard of. The midwives should have helped my mum and reported the doctor for unprofessional conduct...they didn't. If it had come to court, do you think the midwives would have backed my mum or the doctor they work with?

Doctors can and do lie; they are human beings like the rest of us. Most of their mistakes are down to sheer incompetence and lack of proper training however.

WHy and how you cannot comprehend that people being paid by the very authority they are answerable to is a blatant conflict of interest i do not understand.