Credit & Debit Card Urgent Help.

kesb16

lisyloo wrote:

Sorry, but I think it's all a big fuss over nothing (to sell papers maybe) and I also don't believe you will get anywhere with your campaign.

It's here to stay.
Those who can't cope should stick to a chequebook.
We shouldn't have to subsidise them because fraud increases due to their inability to cope with 4 numbers.
It's not as if they have no alternative and will starve.

It isnt just a case that people cant remembr 4 numbers, it is also the case of "technology" and some members of society, generally those that are of an older generation and are less able individuals struggle with this. Although it may seem simple to you to just enter 4 numbers and press enter, many individuals would struggle with this and it will slow down processing and cause queues - wouldnt you just rather they signed?

lisyloo

wouldnt you just rather they signed?

If they are willing to pay a premium for the extra fraud then it's fine by me.

If they are expecting everyone else to subsidise their inability to type in 4 numbers and press enter, then no, it's not something I personally want to pay for.

It's all very well to be caring, but the question is are you personally willing to foot the bill for it?

All this is about is progress and change and some people's inability to cope very well with it.
Unfortunately elderly people don't cope with change very well (and some of them even die e.g. when moving nursing homes) but that doesn't stop the world changing.

Again a cheque book would seem to be a sensible answer if they want to sign although eventually they will have to keep up with the times or if they really can't cope then someone else will have to do their shopping.

Do you really believe that 3 million people in this country can't use a telephone?
I don't believe that headline grabbing number. It's sensationalist.

James

Isyloo, you've made your feelings clear, and that's your decision. So how about letting others make up their own minds too? Dont answer that just think about it. Go on Isyloo make a call and a contribution - as first requested. You may even surprise yourself.

Guisborough, Lloyds TSB today. Staff and never heard of Chip & Signature and no lterature was available. Handed a pamphlet on chip and PIN which refers you to the Chip and PIN website.

Middlesborough, HSBC - Given the wrong information by their customers services desk. Lady insisted that everything was Chip & PIN, she wasn't aware of Chip & Signature Cards. Checking with her manager again resulted in wrong information. "Just ditch your PIN if you've got one - phone us and we can supress the PIN.


Add HSBC and Lloyds TSB to the Shame list!

regularsaver1

What about people that can't write very well? Have you thought of that - I mean whats safer? a code? or some squiggle that can't be read

To be honest I work for a bank(although not in the banking debt) , and I personally have not heard of the C&S cards - although I've seen the orginal leaflets

James - its not about shaming. The cards your on about should be for the less able maybe - but everyone will want one won't they not? - so they can't advertise because where would the point of chip and pin be in the first place

just like the others, was wondering what is your motive ?

MPH80

James wrote:

Isyloo, you've made your feelings clear, and that's your decision. So how about letting others make up their own minds too?

:rotfl:

That has to be the funniest, most hypocritical thing you've ever said.

If you want to allow people to make up their minds James, how about you find us a series of completely balanced articles rather than the completely anti-chip and pin, pro-signature stuff you always come out with? That way - people can use that balanced information to help make up their minds.

Alternatively, you can let people debate the merits of the two systems so that people can make up their own mind with a good representation of fair information in front of them.

M.

P.s. Those 3 million quoted: If you looked at the bottom of the original Virgin article you provided - which has now disappeared, It stated that a second survey had found roughly 80% of those in the 'at risk' groups found using a pin as easy, or more easy than using a signature. So 3 million suddenly falls to a potential 600,000. Of which, according to the BBC, 100,000 C&S cards have already been issued. If you allow for people who won't use banking services anyway - the numbers look pretty good to me.

James

MPH80,

You may find this link interesting:

http://www.ncc.org.uk/cgi-bin/kmdb10.cgi/-load599957_nccviewcurrent.htm

Come on MPH80, I'm sure others will tackle the liability issues, PIN entry device privacy issues in the forthcoming weeks/years.

Once again, go on ask your card issuer about Chip & Signature Cards, see what adivce is available and report back here -pppplease?

As Wendy Grossman put iit n an excellent article: remember your only temporarily abled yourself.

WSO

James, the time you have spent writing the 9 entries to this thread you've had so far you could have spent doing the research you are trying to persuade others to do.

Re your response to HSBC - how have they failed? They issue you with a Chip and PIN, you tell them you have problems and have them surpress the PIN - it becomes a Chip and Sig card. Ok, so perhaps you can't apply for one but it doesn't mean you can't have one! I do not see this as a failure to provide.

As others have said, if you make it a choice in the first instance you lose the benefits (both security and cost) of the PIN system. Those who will have genuine problems using PIN will let their banks know if they believe it to be the only system and they should find that most will accomodate the Chip and Sig if they make enquiries about it.

Only when a bank or CC company say no to such a genuine request should we be naming and shaming them!

As I am not in a position to be in a genuine need I will not be making enquiries, so please don't reply and ask me to do so James - I've no interest.

lisyloo

Isyloo, you've made your feelings clear, and that's your decision. So how about letting others make up their own minds too?

Hi Jimbob
(note: deliberately reciprocating the discourtesy of not bothering to use your name correctly)

I have not stopped anybody making up their own mind or posting here, but I notice that you haven't been overwhelmed with offers of help.

Dont answer that just think about it.

You are in no posistion to tell me not to post.
I am not instigating discussions on this thread but when someone addresses me I think I have the right to reply.

Go on Isyloo make a call and a contribution

No, for the following reasons:

1) I don't agree with what you are doing because you are seeking to increase costs and fraud for the vast majority.

2) I am suspicious of your motives.

3) Why not just do it yourself? You probably could have done it by now.

Please tell me what is wrong with chequebooks for this small minority?

How do these people use a phone and call emergency services if they can't use a keypad? Why hasn't there been a huge scandal about vulnerable people not being able to call emergency services? why hasn't an alternative been put in place? surely calling emergency services is much more important than shopping?

or is this just a selective disability like selective deafness (this is when elderly people only hear things they want to hear).
This selective disability comes to the fore when they don't want to accept progress, but if they need to phone their friends or order a pizza they are quite capable.

I think you are wasting you time, but if you are really keen on it, why not just do it yourself and stop trying to drag in other people as quite clearly no one is interested.

James

A reminder: From the NCC

‘A year ago we urged the banks to launch an information campaign and improve bank staff awareness of the chip and PIN alternatives. We are really disappointed that banks haven’t taken their responsibilities to vulnerable customers more seriously.

I've asked 'caring moneysavers,' to be good enough to report their own findings (comletely independant) to let us know in their own words what card issuers are telling or failing to tell them about Chip & Signature Cards.

Some card issuers may come out smelling of roses and good for them, let's know who they are. Equally so let's name and shame others who are failing to act.

rerere

got my Chip&Sign card some time ago with relatively small hassle from LloydsTSB (one of the varieties from their "Create" department).
While I accept that C&P is more secure in general, I do not accept the apparent complete shift of responsibility to the card user. If someone steals my card and forges my signature (not that it's thoroughly checked anyway) I'm not liable for any purchases (and the onus is on the CC company to prove it otherwise), but if someone oversees my PIN (and those terminals don't inspire any confidence in the matter) and steals my card, then, as I understand from banks' explanations, I'll have hard time proving that it wasn't me.
And another point is that with a PIN, instead of buying, thieves can just go and withdraw cash from a CC, and given the current state of things banks will always blame that on me, unless I can prove it otherwise.

just my 2 cents