Unions protest because contractors are using foreign workers at power station.

Any

The point is, that there is work for everyone around the world and it's only up to us what we do with the opportunity.

Just because a british Johny doesn't have the courage to go and see the world, doesn't mean that he cannot.

chewmylegoff

Any wrote: »

Well, and I can prove you wrong. My friend, John, works on oil tankers - he is an engineer. He lives 3 mths away and 2 mths at home, while his family lives in UK full time. When he is away, he shares with another employees an apartment.

My other friend Andy, lives in China this year - because he is very specialised accountant and there is a factory that needs his services. He is renting out with another accountant, while his family lives in the UK.

And Polish works come into building industry here, because we want them to, because british workers believe that they are entitled to king's pay for a job that is only worth what it is worth.

what i am talking about is the sort of jobs that east europeans are coming here and competing for. it's not as if there are hordes of polish accountants coming over. it's mostly unskilled general work, or skilled/semi skilled labour.

also, i'm talking about whether british people can compete for the jobs in their own country. you know, where their family is and where they want to be. they may not want to go and live in a houseshare in another country.

you also need to factor in the ability to work elsewhere - if you are an EU citizen you can work anywhere in the EU. however, you can't just uproots and go and work outside of the EU. you have to have the right qualifications and experience to get a visa. which is why if you are an engineer for instance, you can get a job that pays well overseas, but if you are a bricklayer you cannot.

anyway, i'm not having a go at east europeans, i can just understand why people in this country will take benefits rather than work for the same pay that east europeans will. the levels of pay they will work for are often not sustainable for someone who has to pay the full cost of living here (which is why migrant workers live in overcrowded housing in the first place).

if the benefits were stripped away then they would be forced to work for the same wages as migrant workers. but then what we would be saying to our workforce is "we expect you to work for illegally low wages and live in illegally overcrowded housing". i.e. reversing the last 100 years of social reform.

Any

From my own experience (my brother is a builder and a team leader, most of his stuff being Polish), they will not go into illegal wages, they earn £7 an hour, while british staff wants above £10.

I think that £7 is correct wage for someone that has no education and qualifications, and that is my argument.

Any

dinoyoung wrote: »

The influx of cheap foreign labour unfortunately hurts the poorest in society the most.

Reforming the benefit & tax system so that the unemployed increase their income through work rather than subtract from it would perhaps increase the supply of such labour and lead to a positive outcome for both employers and employees.

Paying for the cost of two sets (1 without job, 1 foreign worker) of health care, education, water, roads e.t.c. whilst bringing in taxes based upon a single wage/spending of £7ph (for example) will put a strain on this infrastructure.

Better to reform the benefit & tax systems in order to create incentives for unemployed to work and in doing so increase their standard of living.

Except for the words "cheap labour" I completely agree.

leveller2911

Any wrote: »

Jesus, no wonder they were laid off... I have university, paid some £10k for my qualifications and I don't get paid this sort of money!!!!

Also I haven't noticed anyone mentioning - do you realise, that all the foreign workers who live 4 of in the same house, usually only do this for short period of time, because they want to go home, where they have better weather, buy themselves a house and provide for a family??
If you haven't noticed, the exchange rate is so bad that it is not worth it for them, so the ones we are still left with are actually normal people living normal lives with their families..

The fact is, that I had a plastering job done last year, where english worker quoted me £450 for day and half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! while Polish made beautifull job for £200. I don't know how about you, but I don't have that kind of money to waste away.

" I have university"??? so you paid for your qualification?, do you mean you brought it?, most businesses look for experience above qualifications beacuse the education system has been watered down with and endless subjects..

So its ok for foreign workers to come here, undercut the local worker who has a wife,mortgage and 2 children to look after ruin him/her then fu*ck off back home and " buy a house and provide for their family"? can you see any similarity there? I hope one day when they have their nice "house and family" they get f*ucked over by cheap foreign labour.

As for the exchange rate dont give me that crap its only got bad over the last few months we opened our borders years ago.:rolleyes:

Lastly , as for the job price ,it all depends on where you live , the "cost of living " varies countrywide so that doesn't stack up .

Chris_Hinds

mizzbiz wrote: »

Also, I hate to say it, and I am more than guilty of it, foreign (Polish) workers are very reliable, they turn up early, leave late, work every second that they're being paid for and never pull sickies.

This is very accurate, one of our cleaners is from Poland and she is also a fully (and highly) qualified engineer. In order to better herself she's voluntarily working 3 hours a day for us after work, without pay, in order to demonstrate her ability, to increase her knowledge and hopefully to get a full time job with us in engineering.

It does not matter where someone comes from, what they look like or where they call home. It matters that a person applies their talents as best they can and those talents help the company get where they want to go. I know I'm less well paid than my colleagues because I'm only just into the role out of a graduate scheme. I've still got much to learn so I expect less, but I don't work any less hard and I do everything I can to learn and develop. Something for nothing doesn't exist and those that try it soon get found out.

Regards

Chris

Dylanwing

Why can we not import Polish Bankers? They would work for lower wages, and could hardly do a worse job? Also, why don't Total use imported Senior Managers and Directors? Surely the same arguments apply? No, they use cheap labour to bloat their salaries and bonusses. I am fully behind the Unions here!

Errata

Some more British workers are very upset about the use of foreign labour -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7858349.stm

omelette451

chewmylegoff wrote: »

also, i'm talking about whether british people can compete for the jobs in their own country. you know, where their family is and where they want to be. they may not want to go and live in a houseshare in another country.

This is a contradiction of your own argument. Do you think most foreign workers don't have families? Or that they wouldn't rather be with them? British people can do the same thing if they want to, if they're willing to make the effort. There are plenty of British 'migrant' workers who go somewhere for a decent wage and send it back home to their families, and there always have been. People working on oil rigs is a good example, and, as another poster has mentioned, there are quite a few who go out to other countries where they are in demand: a fair few miners, for example, spent the 90s commuting every month or so to Krygyzstan, where they earnt good money mining gold. Many British people are 'domestic' migrant workers, and spend the week living in a cheap flat somewhere near where they work (usually in London, Birmingham, etc.) and go home to their families at the weekend and in holidays; this ranges from top-level executives right down to northern-based tradesmen who know that southern fees can be so much higher than northern ones (for example the recent installation of our new boiler was done by a (British) plumber who spends most of his time fitting bathrooms and kitchens in shop refurbishments in the south). At the same time, there are many people who choose not to live such a life, precisely because they want to be where their families are or simply don't want to move somewhere else. It's perfectly acceptable to want this, but those people need to accept the fact that it may mean they lose out on higher salaries. It's called accepting that you can't have it both ways and making sacrifices to suit your lifestyle. What's really wrong is saying that other people shouldn't be allowed to do something just because you don't want to have to do it yourself.

what we would be saying to our workforce is "we expect you to work for illegally low wages"

No one is suggesting that anyone be made to work for illegally low wages. The minimum wage was introduced for very good reasons, and everyone is entitled to receive it. As far as I know, there are very few European workers being paid less than the legal minimum wage. The 'problem' is that they are willing to work for the going rate, whereas the the people who are complaining aren't.

leveller2911

I AM not against foreign workers , its the UN LEVEL "playing field" i'm against.If we need workers then thats fine, but the [EMAIL="tw@ts"]tw@ts[/EMAIL] in Parliament are too busy with there "snouts in the trough" to sort out the lazy,workshy,dole scrounging scum that are dragging this country down ..and yes i'm also having a go at the parts of the British public too, so im not being racist or anti anyone.........

:rolleyes: