Unions protest because contractors are using foreign workers at power station.

leveller2911

omelette451 wrote: »

The law is perfectly clear, and imo is perfectly justified. We live in a global society, and laws of freedom of movement within the EU have brought many benefits to all member states throughout the years. Like it or not, Britain's success is dependent on the success of the EU; integration and co-operation are the key to success for the entire continent. As for the situation at the power station, Polish and Spanish staff are perfectly entitled to take up jobs, just as I am entitled to work, travel or study in Poland or Spain - it's quid pro quo to the letter. Instead of ranting and complaining, the staff who consider themselves 'affected' should consider the real reasons foreign staff are being employed: it's nothing to do with lower wages (they're presumably paid the same as British nationals doing the same job) or agreeing to be slaves (employment law and conditions apply equally to everyone), it's because they're willing to be flexible and mobile in order to find the best job they can. Many Poles are returning 'home' because they reckon life there is better now than here, but we don't hear of many British joining them... As a nation we have got too complacent and stuck in our ways, and rather than blaming immigrants for everything we should be more imaginitive in adapting ourselves to changing circumstances.

As for the OP, why does the union think it has the right to be xenophobic and racist in that way? I thought the union's job was to represent the whole workforce, but it's not doing a very good job if it's criticising half of it and saying it has no right to be there. The same unions initially tried to fight against women being allowed into the workforce - look where that got them! IMO the union should be forced to adopt the TUC policy of solidarity across the whole shop-floor staff.

"NOT being paid less than British workers " Absolute TOSH , from my 1st hand experience (NOT hearsay) Bricklayers were being paid about £170 per day, influx of eastern European brickies willing to work for £80 per day, British brickies all laid off, European brickies taken on.......FACT NOT FICTION:rolleyes: The main reason Poland has been getting more prosperous is partly due to large EU grants (which we pay more than our share of) of course its getting better,if you pump as much money into Poland thats been pumped into Spain and Portugal in the last 15 yrs it stands to reason it will get better in eastern Europe...

Cleaver

leveller2911 wrote: »

I understand that, If a worker from abroad is better qualified and has more experience (although if we all did that who would give you a job to get the experience?)then good luck to them............

You do what everyone does at the start of a career - get good qualifications, ensure you have worked in part time jobs, do volunteer work, do work placements, work on interview techniques, ensure your CV is good, work your !!! of to get your foot in any door etc. etc. And have a massive amount of luck too of course.

leveller2911 wrote: »

BUT you can't pick and choose parts of an argument and ignore the parts you don't like, If we cannot compete financially then how is it morally right??????

What part of the argument have I ignored? Company has a job requirement. They advertise it. People apply and they give it to the most experienced and qualified person that they feel they can get at a rate that suits them. You need to explain to me what is 'morally' wrong with that and how we Brits cannot 'compete financially'?

leveller2911

omelette451 wrote: »

The law is perfectly clear, and imo is perfectly justified. We live in a global society, and laws of freedom of movement within the EU have brought many benefits to all member states throughout the years. Like it or not, Britain's success is dependent on the success of the EU; integration and co-operation are the key to success for the entire continent. As for the situation at the power station, Polish and Spanish staff are perfectly entitled to take up jobs, just as I am entitled to work, travel or study in Poland or Spain - it's quid pro quo to the letter. Instead of ranting and complaining, the staff who consider themselves 'affected' should consider the real reasons foreign staff are being employed: it's nothing to do with lower wages (they're presumably paid the same as British nationals doing the same job) or agreeing to be slaves (employment law and conditions apply equally to everyone), it's because they're willing to be flexible and mobile in order to find the best job they can. Many Poles are returning 'home' because they reckon life there is better now than here, but we don't hear of many British joining them... As a nation we have got too complacent and stuck in our ways, and rather than blaming immigrants for everything we should be more imaginitive in adapting ourselves to changing circumstances.

As for the OP, why does the union think it has the right to be xenophobic and racist in that way? I thought the union's job was to represent the whole workforce, but it's not doing a very good job if it's criticising half of it and saying it has no right to be there. The same unions initially tried to fight against women being allowed into the workforce - look where that got them! IMO the union should be forced to adopt the TUC policy of solidarity across the whole shop-floor staff.

Can you please remind me what exactly was so xenophobic and racist with the OP ????Its people like you who play the race card with any excuse that are the worse thing about this country now, when anyone wishes to give a point of view that doesn't agree with yours they are either racists or xenophobes.

Yoghurt knitting liberals:rolleyes:

leveller2911

Cleaver wrote: »

You do what everyone does at the start of a career - get good qualifications, ensure you have worked in part time jobs, do volunteer work, do work placements, work on interview techniques, ensure your CV is good, work your !!! of to get your foot in any door etc. etc. And have a massive amount of luck too of course.



What part of the argument have I ignored? Company has a job requirement. They advertise it. People apply and they give it to the most experienced and qualified person that they feel they can get at a rate that suits them. You need to explain to me what is 'morally' wrong with that and how we Brits cannot 'compete financially'?

You ignored the fact that a British worker from whichever ethnic group you choose to name can't compete financially with cheap foreign workers...You are saying its ok because they are hard working etc which it is, but your dismissing some of the facts of why they are getting the jobs instead of the British worker.

mizzbiz

Also, I hate to say it, and I am more than guilty of it, foreign (Polish) workers are very reliable, they turn up early, leave late, work every second that they're being paid for and never pull sickies.

I realise that's a generalisation, but it is on the whole the way it is. For the lower paid, minimum wage jobs, a foreign (polish) worker will put as much effort in as he would in a management position, and often, they have very good degrees and qualifications from their own country.

I know many polish migrant workers who fit my 'generalisation'. One ex-housemate of mine came from Poland with nothing, worked like a dog in a factory and is now a manager in taht same factory. After all, he came to work, send money back to his family and pay his sisters masters degree, and he is managing to do this very well.

leveller2911

Cleaver wrote: »

You do what everyone does at the start of a career - get good qualifications, ensure you have worked in part time jobs, do volunteer work, do work placements, work on interview techniques, ensure your CV is good, work your !!! of to get your foot in any door etc. etc. And have a massive amount of luck too of course.



What part of the argument have I ignored? Company has a job requirement. They advertise it. People apply and they give it to the most experienced and qualified person that they feel they can get at a rate that suits them. You need to explain to me what is 'morally' wrong with that and how we Brits cannot 'compete financially'?

I did explain how a British worker can't compete financially : 1 British worker,earning 1 wage, wife, 2 children,mortgage....pays 100% of the council tax,mortgage etc.....


House with 5 imigrant workers in all working earning 5x wages, paying 20% of the rent/mortgage, 20% council tax ,food etc.............

It just doesn't stack up as being fair equal and "morally" right.

Can I ask you Cleaver what you occupation is??

As for a "free market" then can someone please explain why France props up its fishing industry with subsidies?? (Illegal under EU law)

SO much for the "FREE MARKET"

mizzbiz

leveller2911 wrote: »

It just doesn't stack up as being fair equal and "morally" right.

There are so many things in our society and in the world that fit this description, many of them a lot worse than being on the dole for a few years if you can't get a job.

If I was a Palestinian right now I would think you were mental for having this discussion.

Cleaver

leveller2911 wrote: »

I did explain how a British worker can't compete financially : 1 British worker,earning 1 wage, wife, 2 children,mortgage....pays 100% of the council tax,mortgage etc.....

House with 5 imigrant workers in all working earning 5x wages, paying 20% of the rent/mortgage, 20% council tax ,food etc.............

And as I explained before, the British worker is more than entitled to do the same. I also think your view is very stereotypical - the people who live near me who have come from abroad live in as many different forms as the Brits who live near me, some in flatshares, some as a couple, some with one friend, some with a large family.

leveller2911 wrote: »

It just doesn't stack up as being fair equal and "morally" right.

I guess we just have to beg to differ, I don't see an issue really.

leveller2911 wrote: »

Can I ask you Cleaver what you occupation is??

Why is that relevant?

leveller2911

Cleaver wrote: »

And as I explained before, the British worker is more than entitled to do the same. I also think your view is very stereotypical - the people who live near me who have come from abroad live in as many different forms as the Brits who live near me, some in flatshares, some as a couple, some with one friend, some with a large family.



I guess we just have to beg to differ, I don't see an issue really.



Why is that relevant?

Because everything Ive written is 1st hand experience, NOT what ive read in the newspapers,if your occupation does not suffer the same problems as the building industry, farming etc then its very easy for you to sit on your pedastal and be judgemental .

Im lucky ,im a self employed joiner and im busy, but I know plenty in the construction industry and fishing who are having a tough time through NO fault of there own.

Cleaver

leveller2911 wrote: »

Because everything Ive written is 1st hand experience, NOT what ive read in the newspapers,if your occupation does not suffer the same problems as the building industry, farming etc then its very easy for you to sit on your pedastal and be judgemental .

Im lucky ,im a self employed joiner and im busy, but I know plenty in the construction industry and fishing who are having a tough time through NO fault of there own.

I wrote a reply to this explaining that probably 30 to 50% of the people working in my role are either from the EU, North America, Asia and Australia but I don't really feel I need to justify my argument. I've recently moved in to a more substantive post, but my contracts in the past were often 'applied for' by people from all over the globe. It meant that I kept on my toes, ensured I was as best qualified and experienced as I could be and worked hard to compete. I welcomed the competition: best person for the job. I knew that companies would take on the best person they could at the cheapest price possible, so it was a very level playing field for me.

Mrs Cleaver works in the office side of the construction industry for a massive company. The site managers there are regulary heard to be saying that they'd love to take on more British workers on their site but, as someone else has pointed out, a lot of the EU nationals turn up early, rarely call in sick, don't complain, work very hard and are often model employees. Employing them is nothing to do with pay (the company is a huge FTSE listed company and could not get away with changing pay rates on a whim), it's a choice as to the type of workforce they want.