BT adding 0870/0845 numbers to its call packages - discussion

bbb_uk

0013 wrote: »

.. ever since the BT made 0870 numbers free (within their calling plans), has any one actually tried to use a dial around 0870 access number and see if they are free or being billed in their normal way?

just want to knwo as i am int he middle of deciding if i should swtch back to BT as my main landline service provider...

Thanks

BT, like most (if not all) other providers, monitor amount of calls to numbers so if they notice a certain number gets called a hell of a lot then they will simply check to see if its a dial-through provider and if so, block it.

Thats how, at first, dial through numbers can be dialled from certain other networks and included in their tariffs but then suddenly that provider starts charging for it.

Some dial-through providers probably try and get around this by changing the dial-through number so it could be included in inclusive tariffs. That is until telephone providers like BT catch on to it.

Heinz

bbb_uk wrote: »

BT, like most (if not all) other providers, monitor amount of calls to numbers so if they notice a certain number gets called a hell of a lot then they will simply check to see if its a dial-through provider and if so, block it.

Some dial-through providers probably try and get around this by changing the dial-through number so it could be included in inclusive tariffs. That is until telephone providers like BT catch on to it.

And there's a new wrinkle - get a 0870 number which is on permanent divert to each international or mobile number you call - http://www.my0870.com/

They're not gateway (indirect access) numbers because each 0870 number routes (diverts) only to one international or mobile number.

anwar78

0013 wrote: »

.. ever since the BT made 0870 numbers free (within their calling plans), has any one actually tried to use a dial around 0870 access number and see if they are free or being billed in their normal way?

just want to knwo as i am int he middle of deciding if i should swtch back to BT as my main landline service provider...

Thanks

I used my0870.com who give you your own 0870 number to route wherever you like to call Pakistan, and I've not been charged

0013

that is very interesting. if you Google 0870 there other providers which come up. do you think these is the starting of a new wave.....

was looking at other forums and i think there are other ppl talking about www.my0870.com but has any one of you heard of www.call0870.co.uk ??

i think i am going to wait another week or so before i make up my mind of switching back to bt.

Ypaymore

0013 wrote: »

that is very interesting. if you Google 0870 there other providers which come up. do you think these is the starting of a new wave.....

was looking at other forums and i think there are other ppl talking about www.my0870.com but has any one of you heard of www.call0870.co.uk ??

i think i am going to wait another week or so before i make up my mind of switching back to bt.

Call 0870 is an indirect access service. My 0870 is not.

Indirect access calls are still chargeable. If they dont get charged to start with BT,s sosphicated equipment will soon pick it up, plus the BT Police read sites like this.;)

OldGreyFox

MSE_Martin wrote: »

BT as one calls provider has just chosen to absorb the cost, as a savvy move to take itself out of the firing line on a tough issue.

Yes but they giveth with one hand and taketh with the other.

Now we appear to know how BT are funding the inclusive 0845/0870 calls by across the board price increases.

diamonds

YoungNick wrote: »

Alas, Ofcom made their position all too clear in an email to me, back in December 2008. Their view is that BT Wholesale did design WCLI so that 1280 does not work as the consumer expects, and that Ofcom will do nothing about it because BT Wholesale doesn't have significant market power in the wholesale calls market. See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=17090409&postcount=238

doesnt it ? BT Wholesale IS the biggest wholesaler in the UK telco industry

deklan99

You could argue what calls package can the end-user purchase direct from BTw? None.
What calls package can the various providers purchase from BTw?
Several. Presumably they would go for the one that gives them the highest profit from end-users.
What can the end-user do?
Go for the provider who gives them the cheapest deal.

cardigan

I asked BT why 0871 and 0844 numbers were not included in the 'free' 0870/0845 deal, this was their reply . . . .

Thank you for your e-mail dated 20/1/09 regarding 0845, 0844 and 0870, 0871 numbers.

O845 and 0870 numbers are used online services such as for online games, ticket booking and ticket reservation and so on, which are chargeable services and we have a fixed charges for these calls. Where as 0844 and 0871 numbers are the internet service provider and access indirect; the charges for these calls varies according to the destination and the purpose.

I understand that most people use these numbers very frequently and the charges are quite high as well; as these numbers are for the calls made to Internet Service Providers (ISP?s) and indirect access numbers. I would like to make you aware that this requires the other service providers intervention to make these calls free of charge. Therefore, it has not been included at the moment. I appreciate your feedback and suggestion regarding this; I will pass on your comments to the department concerned and can assure that this will be looked in to.

bunking_off

0871 and 0844 aren't included because the accounting works in a different way.

On 0845/870, BT set the retail rate and the terminating CP gets this, minus a fee for call origination. Historically this has alllowed a margin for revenue share with the number owner. Going forward, revenue share is/will be barred and Ofcom is leaning heavily on CPs to charge at their geo rate (they can only actually compel BT, as no-one else has market power). With the future looming, many/most 0870 number holders are moving elsewhere to either retain their revenue share (majority, move to 0871/844) or lose it but look customer-focussed in the process (minority, move to 03). BT know this so their apparent altruism, though worth something, is not all that it seems as I've posted earlier. Additionally, because the amount they outpay to the terminator is modified according to the level of retail discount they provide (e.g. including in unmetered call packages), it's not entirely BT who pick up the tab. It's not clear yet, but there's a fair chance that the discount implication, but if not that the regulatory changes, will see an end to dial-through services on 0870 because with no revenue share there's nothing to pay for the onward international leg : enjoy it while you can.

On 0844 and 0871, revenue share isn't banned. Plus, within the bounds of the available BT price-points, the terminating CP sets what they'd like to receive and this sets the retail rate for the range (i.e. the BT outpayment, plus an origination fee for BT)...so subtle difference of what the starting point is. Reality is, process starts with the level of revenue share the customer wants, which determines the number according to the above. I think that by (interconnect) contract most of the 0871/0844 ranges are defined as being exempt from BT retail discounts so the flexibility isn't there.