BT adding 0870/0845 numbers to its call packages - discussion

bunking_off

deklan99 wrote: »

end of story as far as this forum is concerned.

1) Not disagreeing. The point of the remainder of my post is that it's nowhere near as good for consumers as may be thought at first sight.

2) The 1280 issue is not good for consumers.

3) It wouldn't be good for anyone (other than BT) in the long term if BT leveraged it's power in one market (residential call origination) to get greater market share in markets where it's less powerful (call termination to banks etc). I'm not saying they are in this case, but frequently there's more to these things than meets the eye.

jhp

derrick wrote: »

Not if you use the likes of 18185,1899,18866 etc, typically 5p per call irrespective of duration.
Therefore a 10 minute call on BT would cost 17p,(and rising if longer then 10 mins at the rate of 2p per minute), but on one of the override numbers would cost 5p in total.

I did say " If your using BT " .

Not all members use Indirect Access Providers.

derrick

jhp wrote: »

I did say " If your using BT " .

Not all members use Indirect Access Providers.

Doesn't mean that they can't.Also most other telcos bar override numbers,so it is more relevant to BT users.

My point still stands

will-in-estoril

Q. What have we been complaining about for several years now?
A. The cost of 0870 numbers and the fact that they are not included in the inclusive minutes or inclusive calls of packages.

Q. What has happened now?
A. BT has now (or wef 16 January) included 0870 and 0845 numbers in its packages

Q. What happened in the past to the revenue generated from these types of numbers?
A. It was split between BT and the organisation using the 0870/0845 number.

Q. What will happen now to the revenue?
A. As an end user/consumer I am not concerned whether BT absorbs the costs or it is the organisation.

Q. What if they move to 0871/0844 numbers?
A. Many organisations already have.

Q. Do I want to analyse BT's motives/strategy for changing its policy?
A. No, I am a consumer who has supported the 'Say No to 0870' campaign.

Q. Is this the end of the battle?
A. No, 0871/0844 will undoubtedly come next, but this is a victory.

We have campaigned to neutralise 0870. This has now happened. Let's be a bit positive for once, rather than getting hung up on conspiracy theories.

Let's just enjoy the victory!!

Jemma-T

Yes, I'm pleased about the 0870 (although I've always bypassed the 'problem') for the ignorant people out there.

BT aren't doing this to help their customers however, it's an attack on their competitors. BT would like less of them too.

will-in-estoril

Jemma-T wrote: »

Yes, I'm pleased about the 0870 (although I've always bypassed the 'problem') for the ignorant people out there.

BT aren't doing this to help their customers however, it's an attack on their competitors. BT would like less of them too.

You can't have it both ways! If BT had done nothing you would quite rightly say that the telephone companies were operating a cartel by maintaining calling charges for 0870/0845 numbers at a higher rate.

If you are seriously saying that BT's move is anti-competitive you should be lobbying the regulator to block these cuts.

Jemma-T

The regulator is an !!! and anyway almost all regulation fell away several months ago.

I'm stating a few facts that's all. The only thing that bothers me about 0870/0845 is the lies and misinformation (or no information) that it's a premium rate call. Like I said this only affects people who are either ignorant or don't care.

Every call that has a premium should have a warning in front of it. Either on paper or a recorded voice.

BT's not doing anyone any favours and whomever dreamt it up would have checked to make sure they can rob the money off another set of customers. Yes, that a market for consumers but the poor and ignorant (those very old people I see queuing in the PO to pay their 'bill') never know much about choice.

MSE_Martin

Just a quick note. I think for BT users this is good news. Yet lets remember, this isnt a fundamental change to the 0870 issue - BT as one calls provider has just chosen to absorb the cost, as a savvy move to take itself out of the firing line on a tough issue. Yet it should be welcomed - we await to see if others will respond (talktalk's price promise springs to mind).

As for "Secondly, the advice on 1280 could proved flawed because any call providers that use BTWholesale's WCLI product rather than CPS (such as Sky) result in 1280 not functioning properly (the call completes, but is billed by your calls provider rather than BT). A few of us have repeatedly raised this, but not got Martin's ear. Problem is, it's less than transparent to customers which underlying wholesale product CPs use to provide their retail service."

You have got my ear, I am aware of it for Sky customers, but the majority of CPS users can access it still. This is something that was raised at a meeting I had with Ofcom and it was meant to be clarifying the situation and why - but we're still awaiting...

Martin

bunking_off

MSE_Martin wrote: »

As for "Secondly, the advice on 1280 could proved flawed because any call providers that use BTWholesale's WCLI product rather than CPS (such as Sky) result in 1280 not functioning properly (the call completes, but is billed by your calls provider rather than BT). A few of us have repeatedly raised this, but not got Martin's ear. Problem is, it's less than transparent to customers which underlying wholesale product CPs use to provide their retail service."

You have got my ear, I am aware of it for Sky customers, but the majority of CPS users can access it still. This is something that was raised at a meeting I had with Ofcom and it was meant to be clarifying the situation and why - but we're still awaiting...

Martin

Thanks Martin...sorry for doubting you on it but you'd gone a bit quiet on it since your meeting! I work in telecoms regulation so am used to waiting for Ofcom. ;-)

System

Alas, Ofcom made their position all too clear in an email to me, back in December 2008. Their view is that BT Wholesale did design WCLI so that 1280 does not work as the consumer expects, and that Ofcom will do nothing about it because BT Wholesale doesn't have significant market power in the wholesale calls market. See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=17090409&postcount=238