Faster Payments - is there a problem or is LLoyds just incompetent?

ldn-100

I have a theory that they have pulled the plug on outgoing FPS until they get card readers issued. It seems really odd that they had it running for a couple of months and then - without warning or explanation - the whole system is pulled. I'd like to think that a major organisation like this isn't incapable of implementing an IT solution and it is really a case of not properly assessing the risk of allowing FPS without secondary security. Didn't they initially blame problems with the system on increased levels of fraud?

Milarky

FPS is run and operated by APACS - the pritvate banks' private trunk payment service. What happened with the 'revolution' in payments promised way back in the year 2000 by a certain A Smith...

http://archive.treasury.gov.uk/press/2000/p148_00.html
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"There will be no hiding place for anyone seeking to take advantage of customers dependent on them to carry out essential daily banking transactions such as drawing cash, cashing cheques, transferring money or using standing orders and direct debits to pay bills."


[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chief Secretary Andrew Smith[/FONT]

Instead, what happened was entirely predictable. The Treasury resiled from legislation forcing the banks to implement a faster payment system. They kicked there own report - commissioned in 1998 - into the long grass. They waited nearly 3 years (2003) until they admitted that legislation would not be forthcoming after all - all the while buying time for the banks to continue doing exactly the above. Finally, they patted themselves on the back for appointing the OFT with 'an enhanced role' - with a ridiculously long timescale of 4 years to negotiate (!!!!!!!) with the very same banks: "Please Mr Banks, could you see your way to speeding up payments - it's 2005 already and we only started to look into this in 1998?" Naturally the banks were 'reasonable'. It would take 'two years' (after they took another six months waiting just to move the goalposts) but they were very 'confident' it could be delivered 'in time' [for the Bejing Olympics?]

And take their time they have. As soon as they realised that the govt wasn't bothered to pass laws to make them do anything they could take the most circuitous and tortured root possible to arrive at - well - where we are today.

OFT is a badger just like Darling. A caught-in-the-corporate-headlights and dazzled-by-bank-insiders rather than a proper consumer champion and regulator. Just look at the Horlicks created by the bank charges test case?

FPS works - but only if individual banks dip in and do their bit by connecting their customers to it. Their continued refusal to act honorably - and the continued indifference of a government that lost interest in 'reform' years ago and is simply thinking on its own immenent demise - have produced this sorry mess.

But will we learn? Will we ever? Nope! The UK's culture of insiderism will continue undiminished I am sorry to admit.

Dagobert

A couple of months ago I tried to send a FP from TSB to a personal account which is capable of receiving FP, using phoneline. The advisor told me that the recipient cannot accept FPs. I tried 6 different personal accounts (Barclays, HSBC, RBS, BoS, FD). All of those accounts were rejected for FP.

To-day, I tried again to send a FP to a Tesco Internet Saver. Nope. The advisor said it was maybe because at 15:30 we were so close to the banking deadline!

My suspicion is that at Lloyds it only works with bill payments (as opposed to personal accounts), that is if it works at all.

Milarky

My own opinion is that BACS should be (have been) removed as a payments system after a specified period (say 12 months) when FPS arrived - rather like when currency conversion takes place and a dual system only operates for a limited time. This could have been legislated for all those years ago and the banks would then have a choice - service your customers or be fined big time. But we all know the story (not to repeat myself) of 'regulation' of key businesses like these.

Extant

Milarky wrote: »

My own opinion is that BACS should be (have been) removed as a payments system after a specified period (say 12 months) when FPS arrived - rather like when currency conversion takes place and a dual system only operates for a limited time. This could have been legislated for all those years ago and the banks would then have a choice - service your customers or be fined big time. But we all know the story (not to repeat myself) of 'regulation' of key businesses like these.

BACS still has a lot of different uses. For a start, not every bank uses/will use FPS (note Bank of England) so there is no point in turning it off. There's also a lot of non-critical payments in business which are just as good going by BACS, a well as some which are better suited to going BACS - direct debits, for example, as they can then be recalled. The same applies for salary payments - BACS has a recall feature, FPS does not. In addition, BACS is a time worn, reliable system - perfect as a redundant system for backup, and also very cheap to run for the above purposes.

Extant

Dagobert wrote: »

A couple of months ago I tried to send a FP from TSB to a personal accountwhich is capable of receiving FP, using phoneline. The advisor told me that the recipient cannot accept FPs. I tried 6 different personal accounts (Barclays, HSBC, RBS, BoS, FD). All of those accounts were rejected for FP.

To-day, I tried again to send a FP to a Tesco Internet Saver. Nope. The advisor said it was maybe because at 15:30 we were so close to the banking deadline!

My suspicion is that at Lloyds it only works with bill payments (as opposed to personal accounts), that is if it works at all.

FPS functions 24/7, there is effectively no cut off. Posting dates will still apply (i.e. anything after Xpm will still show as the next day) but it should still get there within the 4 hour time frame.

Edit: if I had to guess what Lloyds were suffering from, it wouldn't be regular technical issues, as this system has had months to be tested with the one penny payments etc. I'd bet it was more to do with fraud prevention and getting that online, effective and running fast enough to cope with the demand.

Dagobert

BarclaysManager wrote: »

FPS functions 24/7

Tesco Personal Finance does not allow any FPs at weekend (they've got RBS under the hood).

I have not tested weekend FPs with any other bank.

YorkshireBoy

Dagobert wrote: »

Tesco Personal Finance does not allow any FPs at weekend (they've got RBS under the hood).

I successfully made a faster payment from my Tesco Internet Saver to LTSB at 1am last Sunday morning. Tesco dates the payment as the Monday, but the money most definitely arrives in the destination account (almost) immediately.

I have not tested weekend FPs with any other bank.

I can send faster payments from HSBC on a weekend too.

Mikeyorks

Milarky wrote: »

My own opinion is that BACS should be (have been) removed as a payments system after a specified period (say 12 months) when FPS arrived

You won't get paid ..... or pay most of your bills if they did that!

Even at full roll-out FP will only take out around 10% of the traffic that went via BACS. The remainder is made up mainly of BACS Direct Credits (salaries / pensions / benefits) and DDs. There's also a significant traffic of Direct Credits used by larger businesses to pay supplier bills.

No current intention to migrate any of these to FP as they don't generate 'float'. And it was the mandate to eliminate that which gave rise to FP.

iceicebaby

I am with Lloyds and i send several FP's each month, have done for months and they have all been fine.

I send to a natwest bank account, and credit card accounts with halifax, natwest, asda, and barclays.

I always do them on internet banking via lloyds, they always go through and they all have a (very long!) reference number.

So I dont know why its not working for you guys but I have never had problems (yet!)