My fight to get my life back!

pebbles88

di3004 wrote: »

Will have another thorough read on this later, you may possibly have a case here hun.;)

Thanks di3004,

to bring you up to date, i have written to my 2 catalogues for CCA's. both have written back saying that they cannot find it, so following default letters to both companies, so far only one has wrote back saying they are investigating, their 30 days is up on the 24th feb... so not long now. if they still cant find it, im hoping to offer a reduced full and final settlement offer. so fingers crossed there.

I pinged CCA's off to my CC's, as when i first wrote to them advising that we were struggling financially, they simply wrote back saying that as the letters werent signed, they couldnt enforce them.

so i pinged a letter back stating that they didnt need signature as they have already sent sensitive material..blah blah back to them.

got virtually identical letters back from them both today, which is one of the image links i posted earlier today in this thread. The tesco papers have my signature on them, so think im stuck with them (thankfully that balance is not too high) but the natwest has no signatures on at all, I took that card out in 1998. PM me if you need any more info.

Many many thanks, :beer:

10past6

Pebbles

As you're on JSA, are you making just token payments of £1.00 per month to your creditors?

GeorgeUK

Hi Pebbles

When was the last time you made a payment towards the Natwest account? Just wondering as they may be tring to slip something past you so that the statute barred clock restarts when it shouldn't.

They have put in the letter

payment of a fee of £1, which has been received and has been applied to your account accordingly.

If you have not made a payment for some time, the £1 fee should not be applied to the balance. If you are still making payments or have been until recently then i suppose you could just thank them for reducing your balance by £1 if they have done so by not being aware of what they are meant to be doing.

2nd Page i can't read. You are supposed to receive legible copies of the CCA so if they are saying this is part of the CCA, they are wrong.

3,4&5 appear to be part of the T&C

6 letter about a replacement card

7 They have provided the credit limit, repayment details and interest rate as required.

HOWEVER

You requested a true copy of the executed agreement. They are allowed to leave out signatures (except at court) but this "copy" they have provided is more like a reconstruction with the information filled in. This would suggest that they do not have the original document (or a copy of it) to copy and send to you.

The OFT has said:

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided.
However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original.

When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.
In the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

(The name and address are required on the agreement, just the signature that's not.)

GeorgeUK

Just read your most recent post - there is no 30 day waiting period - what is this meant to be for?

pebbles88

10past6 wrote: »

Pebbles

As you're on JSA, are you making just token payments of £1.00 per month to your creditors?

Yes I am, we have just started this, when i was on incap ben i was making full payments.

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Hi Pebbles

When was the last time you made a payment towards the Natwest account? Just wondering as they may be tring to slip something past you so that the statute barred clock restarts when it shouldn't.

They have put in the letter

If you have not made a payment for some time, the £1 fee should not be applied to the balance. If you are still making payments or have been until recently then i suppose you could just thank them for reducing your balance by £1 if they have done so by not being aware of what they are meant to be doing.

Yes i have been making regular payments, only just started sending £1 token ones last month.

I have been told they have applied it to the account when they shouldnt so that its looks like i am acknowledging the debt... i know that the £1 fee for the cca copy shouldnt be taken towards my balance.

2nd Page i can't read. You are supposed to receive legible copies of the CCA so if they are saying this is part of the CCA, they are wrong.

3,4&5 appear to be part of the T&C

6 letter about a replacement card

7 They have provided the credit limit, repayment details and interest rate as required.

HOWEVER

You requested a true copy of the executed agreement. They are allowed to leave out signatures (except at court) but this "copy" they have provided is more like a reconstruction with the information filled in. This would suggest that they do not have the original document (or a copy of it) to copy and send to you.

The OFT has said:

(The name and address are required on the agreement, just the signature that's not.)

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Just read your most recent post - there is no 30 day waiting period - what is this meant to be for?

the 30 days is for the catalogues following my default letter, i sent them the cca requeest (12+2 days) and when they got back to me saying they cant produce the cca, i sent them a default notice saying that they had a further 30 days to find and produce the cca or they were committing an offence.
I have just done what i was advised on here... have i made a mistake??

GeorgeUK

If you are curently making payments then there is no need to worry if the have applied the fee to your balance. It would only be if you hadn't been making payments that it may have caused a problem.

It is no longer an offence for them to not provide a copy of the CCA after 30 days.
On 26th May 2008, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 came into effect. Part 5 Schedule 2 states:

20. In section 78 (duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement), in subsection (6), omit paragraph (b) and the “and” preceding it.

CCA74 s78
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and
(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence

Nothing to worry about though. It just means that there is no longer an offence and they will ignore the letter (they would probably ignore it even if it was still an offence).

Have you sent the 12+2 day letter to natwest? If not i would include that section from the OFT. It cannot be a conjectured reconstruction it does not look like they have the original creditagreement and this reproduction is not going to stand up in court. The layout is not quite right for the CCA they have provided as there is no space for a signature. I know that signatures are not required but not even having the box where the signature would go makes me think this was just cobbled together from information they had on their system.

pebbles88

GeorgeUK wrote: »

If you are curently making payments then there is no need to worry if the have applied the fee to your balance. It would only be if you hadn't been making payments that it may have caused a problem.

It is no longer an offence for them to not provide a copy of the CCA after 30 days.
On 26th May 2008, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 came into effect. Part 5 Schedule 2 states:


Nothing to worry about though. It just means that there is no longer an offence and they will ignore the letter (they would probably ignore it even if it was still an offence).

Have you sent the 12+2 day letter to natwest? If not i would include that section from the OFT. It cannot be a conjectured reconstruction it does not look like they have the original creditagreement and this reproduction is not going to stand up in court. The layout is not quite right for the CCA they have provided as there is no space for a signature. I know that signatures are not required but not even having the box where the signature would go makes me think this was just cobbled together from information they had on their system.

hiya,

yes natwest have had the 12+2 letter, thats what prompted them to send me the cc.

so am i right in thinking then that i can send them a default letter now?, then i would presume that i can wait to see what they come back with?? and perhaps offer a full and final??

i am sorry if these are stupid questions,

pebbles88

well, i am taking the bull by the horns so to speak.

following the advice i have received on here today (and other threads) i have prepared a default letter to natwest. i will send it monday and wait to see what their reply is. :eek:

GeorgeUK

Good luck with this pebbles.

The only real way to see if they have a copy of your credit agreement with signatures and everything else is to send a subject access request. This costs £10 so that's why it's the CCA request that's usually advised.

If you have charges to claim back, it may be worth putting that in any F&F letter too.

Let us know what they say.

pebbles88

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Good luck with this pebbles.

The only real way to see if they have a copy of your credit agreement with signatures and everything else is to send a subject access request. This costs £10 so that's why it's the CCA request that's usually advised.

If you have charges to claim back, it may be worth putting that in any F&F letter too.

Let us know what they say.

Thanks, I will do, i am sending the default letter first thing, depending on their reaction to that, i will perhaps go down the SAR route.