My fight to get my life back!

pebbles88

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Did the SAR specify you required a copy of the original credit agreement as well as a copy of any transactions so you can reclaim charges?

If you do go to court, the judge will see that you have been making payments and that you cannot afford any more. Just imagine them being awarded a CCJ that means you pay £1 per month until the debt is paid off. Is that 700 odd years?

its about 750 i think!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

pebbles88

I found a good templete letter on another thread, thats complains about the other CCA requirements as mentioned in earlier posts...

Dear Sir or Madam,


Account no

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974


Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;


Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.


To clarify S.61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;
2.Amount of repayments;
3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
4.Dates of repayments;
5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful


I trust this out lines the situation

Regards

GeorgeUK

Pebbles, just had a quick read through the thread.

Are you still making payment towards the catalogues?
As they have been unable to provide a copy of a CCA, the debt is in dispute and unenforcable. As they have stated that they would not be able to provide a copy of the CCA to a court, this means that even a court could not enforce these debts so i think you should stop making payments if you are still doing so.

I was just wondering about the CCA as it was pointed out to me that it is best to specify exactly what you require of them so that they can't wriggle out of it. Looks like they're going to have to come up with the goods.

Did you hear back about any of your F&F offers, or is this no longer on the cards?

pebbles88

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Pebbles, just had a quick read through the thread.

Are you still making payment towards the catalogues?
As they have been unable to provide a copy of a CCA, the debt is in dispute and unenforcable. As they have stated that they would not be able to provide a copy of the CCA to a court, this means that even a court could not enforce these debts so i think you should stop making payments if you are still doing so.

I was just wondering about the CCA as it was pointed out to me that it is best to specify exactly what you require of them so that they can't wriggle out of it. Looks like they're going to have to come up with the goods.

Did you hear back about any of your F&F offers, or is this no longer on the cards?

Hiya,

I have offered the catalogues f&f, just over 2 weeks ago, havent heard anything yet, they havent pestered me either... i havent made any payments to them since dec. so they have my offer, its now up to them to get in touch. They wont be getting another penny until they do accept it!

I havent offered any one else any f&f yet. we have some money put to one side to do this with. If natwest still give me trouble once i have got my SAR back, then i am going to offer them a f&f. I dont wanna walk away from what i owe, i just really truly have no way of paying it back!

pebbles88

well, had charming letter from halicrap today, informing me that they are lowering my credit limit by £300 as i havent made the min payments...... its the same dept that i sent a huge letter to the other week and who agreed to accept the £1 token payments for now. I swear they have only done it so that i go over my limit now with interest etc. :mad:

GeorgeUK

Hi Pebbles

It might be worth writing back to them requesting that they reduce the credit limit in line with your payments as you will no longer be using that account. It might be worth a try - especially as you will be reclaiming any charges that they apply to the account. One department may not know what the other is doing so if they see that it has been agreed that you are making repayments at an agreed rate, they may accept the proposal - hopefully worth the price of a stamp and a few photocopies of the letters.

pinkerton_angel

Hi Pebbles,
Can't offer much advice I'm afraid as am in a similar situation with a Littlewoods default but just wanted to say don't give up, you've done a great job so far and been really strong. There are so many great people on here who give up a lot of their time to help others and have personally helped me heaps, my financial situation is in a much better state now than it was a few years ago and that's all thanks to the people on this (and CAG) forum.
Will be subscribing to your thread and keeping my fingers crossed for you
Pinky x

pebbles88

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Hi Pebbles

It might be worth writing back to them requesting that they reduce the credit limit in line with your payments as you will no longer be using that account. It might be worth a try - especially as you will be reclaiming any charges that they apply to the account. One department may not know what the other is doing so if they see that it has been agreed that you are making repayments at an agreed rate, they may accept the proposal - hopefully worth the price of a stamp and a few photocopies of the letters.

Good idea.. will get cracking on the letter to them. i can pretty much guarantee that come next statement date i will be right over my limit straight away :rolleyes: , it seems so stupid (but very clever also IYSWIM) for them to do it!

pinkerton_angel wrote: »

Hi Pebbles,
Can't offer much advice I'm afraid as am in a similar situation with a Littlewoods default but just wanted to say don't give up, you've done a great job so far and been really strong. There are so many great people on here who give up a lot of their time to help others and have personally helped me heaps, my financial situation is in a much better state now than it was a few years ago and that's all thanks to the people on this (and CAG) forum.
Will be subscribing to your thread and keeping my fingers crossed for you
Pinky x

Aw Thankyou, Im glad my situation can help at least one person I have defaulted on littlewoods, as they still havent produced a CCA, so let me know if i can help you at all.

pebbles88

GGrr, kays have utterly ignored both my default letter and my f&f, just got statement of 15 pages :eek: (there goes a tree) with a late payment fee and various letters advising that i have missed payments!

I sent them my F&F on the 23rd feb, i know they have received it. SHould i write a reply back to this statement or leave it as they have my offer??

GeorgeUK

They know they have a legal obligation - you've told them twice yourself. If they continue to request payment, inform TS that they did not produce a copy of the CCA as you requested.

I wouldn't waste any more time with them. Remember you are not disputing whether the money is owed or not, you are disputing the enforcablility of that debt and as they have not provided a CCA as they are supposed to, that debt is now unenforcable.