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Where would society be without socialism?

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Comments

  • mvengemvenge
    mvengemvenge Posts: 599 Forumite
    islandannie wrote: »
    So Socialism works and bails out the system when capitalism fails?

    Basically, the fact that we have a populace made up of both socialists and conservatives is a good thing, in my view, as each keeps the other side in check. If either was rampant, it would be the end.

    I've lived through two serious Conservative recessions (so much for the power of the market), and now we face Labour's predictable mess. You trot along to the voting booth and you pick the lesser of two evils, but in my opinion, both used finance (the Tories selling off national assets, Labour encouraging debt so we felt rich) to make us want to vote for them.

    Without socialism, we'd have virtually no safety net, like America. Some would like that, some wouldn't.
    Fokking Fokk!
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    islandannie wrote: »
    The freedom and wealth that capitalism provides very often leads to repossession.

    I think "very often" is over stating the case a bit.

    But yes, freedom includes the freedom to fail.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    islandannie wrote: »
    In english please.

    Socialism just bailed you and many others out.

    Capitalism has failed there can be no argument.

    Before we can have a sensible discussion about this, we need to nail down what we are talking about.

    You proposed the motion, so how about setting out your definitions first?
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    islandannie wrote: »
    #
    Maggie told us "there is no such thing as society"

    So post is invalid.

    Thatcher didn't just make a blanket statement such as this. What she said is actually far more interesting:

    But it went too far. If children have a problem, it is society that is at fault. There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    mardatha wrote: »
    and what would Maggie Thatcher know about anything ? That awful woman was a nightmare & did her level best to ruin life for ordinary working people. She ranks just under Hitler in my book.

    Couldn't agree more. Those millions of Jews, Gypsies, Communists and homsexuals she murdered, the countries she invaded, stripped of all their assets and exploited, just a nose behind Hitler.

    The statement I have quoted is just simply ludicrous.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    moggylover wrote: »

    ETA: in the big picture I REALLY could do without my mobile phone btw.

    I don't think I could. Sorry.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • moggylover
    moggylover Posts: 13,324 Forumite
    neverdespairgirl wrote: »
    I don't think I could. Sorry.

    Yes you could! We all managed perfectly well before they came along - we would not die without them:D - and I would be heartily glad to see the back of those people who cannot shop without trying to organise the next six weeks of their social lives whilst standing in my way, and the even more moronic idiots who still insist on using them whilst driving:D
    "there are some persons in this World who, unable to give better proof of being wise, take a strange delight in showing what they think they have sagaciously read in mankind by uncharitable suspicions of them"
    (Herman Melville)
  • nickmason
    nickmason Posts: 848 Forumite
    moggylover wrote: »
    Yes you could! We all managed perfectly well before they came along - we would not die without them:D - and I would be heartily glad to see the back of those people who cannot shop without trying to organise the next six weeks of their social lives whilst standing in my way, and the even more moronic idiots who still insist on using them whilst driving:D

    We were just talking about this in the pub. (Strange concept, face-to-face and everything).

    Two friends had been trying earlier in the day to meet up. However the rendez-vous they had chosen had no mobile coverage. So they kept driving away from the rendez-vous in order to get a mobile signal so that they could call the other to explain that they had been at the rendez-vous but had no signal and so were trying to get through ... you get the picture!!
  • shaven-monkey
    shaven-monkey Posts: 651 Forumite
    neverdespairgirl wrote: »
    I think "very often" is over stating the case a bit.

    But yes, freedom includes the freedom to fail.

    I'll retract my capitalist solution from previously. The capitalist solution to our problems is to classify the costs of making money to externalities. The costs are then outsourced to the public sector. At all times it is essential to keep the profits and pass the costs on to the consumers all the while skimming at least 2% for yourself.
    When I say "our problems" I of course mean the problems of the capitalists who own the banks.
    Our problem is that the banks continue to play this shell game reaping every greater rewards for absolutely no effort other than to gamble on how creditworthy someone is just before they create money out of nothing to loan to them.

    Capitalism REQUIRES that repossessions occur so that value can be extracted in real assets from the customers in order to convince everyone that the money created out of thin air has some value.
    "Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves." - Norm Franz
  • neverdespairgirl
    neverdespairgirl Posts: 16,501 Forumite
    moggylover wrote: »
    Yes you could! We all managed perfectly well before they came along

    I've had one my entire adult life - 13 years! So i didn't manage without one (-:
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
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