Where would society be without socialism?

drc

More Socialism in action;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/3950038/Labour-planning-secret-tax-on-nice-houses.html

Generali

islandannie wrote: »

Generali either stop it or go for a lie down.

I had a lie down, got up again and went here with the Generalissimos for a jet ski and a picnic:



Socialism is wrong IMO however.

mewbie_2

Generali wrote: »

I had a lie down, got up again and went here with the Generalissimos for a jet ski and a picnic...

Yeah yeah, we had a picnic yesterday too. Made a change from traditional Xmas turkey - actually the gas was cut off. My wife not pleased with me insisting on her wearing a bikini (just to keep up with Generalis), but hey - it's my Xmas too!

Generali

mewbie wrote: »

Yeah yeah, we had a picnic yesterday too. Made a change from traditional Xmas turkey - actually the gas was cut off. My wife not pleased with me insisting on her wearing a bikini (just to keep up with Generalis), but hey - it's my Xmas too!

TBH it is really very odd having Christmas in the sun despite it being my third sunny Christmas.

You have ads on the TV where people wear fur in the sun. Aussies seem to realise that it should be cold on Christmas day but it isn't so Hey! let's go to the beach and play Test Cricket and sail to Tasmania.

mewbie_2

I presume Santa still wears his full hat, coat, boots, etc. rather than a thong? After all he has to go round the whole world pretty quick so wouldn't have much time to get changed.

Generali

mewbie wrote: »

I presume Santa still wears his full hat, coat, boots, etc. rather than a thong? After all he has to go round the whole world pretty quick so wouldn't have much time to get changed.

Well over here thongs come in pairs and are called flip flops in Eng.

New Scientist did a thing about how Santa could do his thing. I found it entertaining.

Walter_J

auximinies wrote: »

A brief history lesson for those of you with blinkers.

Post war we have had two economic systems. Labour won in 1945 and created the Welfare State and an economy driven by nationalised industry. This continued under both Labour and Conservative governments until the late 60s when it saw its first major challenges. The Heath government of 1970 tried to reform what had become known as the corporatist model but ended up going head to head with the unions and losing. Labour also tried reforms and was also beaten by the unions. During this long spell both parties had policies broadly the same - investment in the welfare state, wage controls, national planning, nationalisation (yes, the Tories nationalised things!)

Post 1979 it all changed. Thatcher brought in Monetarism (the control of the money supply) as a means of battling the runaway inflation which had battered the economy ever since the 1973 oil shock. She was partially successful but the recession of the early 1980s was deepened as a result. Post 83 ushered in what we all now know as Thatcherism - free market capitalism, unrestricted markets, privatisation. Most of these ideas were adapted from America, where Reagan had already implemented them. This Anglo-American neo-Liberal model was adopted across Europe and quickly became the only economic model in town. Labour challenged it unsuccessfully for a few elections before accepting it. Since 97 Labour have continued the same economic platform (as did Clinton in America) and the free market has reigned supreme.

What we have just witnessed is an end to the free market model created by Reagan and Thatcher. Whoever was in power now on either side of the Atlantic would have made little difference as Republican and Democrat, Conservative and Labour, all shared the same system. the system collapsed under a right leaning government over there and a left leaning government over here - hard to point the finger and say either side is solely to blame.

I have read some partisan stuff on here and elsewhere that is baffling. The system failed because it was unregulated and collapsed under its own greed. I don't recall any conservative politicians here or Democrats there arguing for tight regulation of financial markets, or action to stop our house price bubble - its only earlier this year that John Redwood in his capacity as Conservative policy wonk wrote a paper arguing that a Conservative government should further deregulate the mortgage market.

Labour have made many many mistakes over their time in power, often from the mouth of an arrogant chancellor who believed in his own boasts of an economic miracle. Pretty much the same as Lawson in 1989 who after 6 years as Chancellor was self-absorbed in his own growth bubble about to collapse. No Chancellor of any party can abolish boom and bust - it is a natural economic cycle just as boom is.

Now we see the creation of a new economic settlement involving state intervention and regulation and an end to cheap consumer credit. Economists are almost unanimous in their solution to the fix and to the eventual outcome. Even the Germans despite their intervention into politics here have spent more than we have bailing out their own banks, and have budgeted a 2% of GDP investment into their economy which is more than ours. Politics here is now a question of the future than the past. If Labour (9and every other government) fix things, then Labour will win again in the midst of the recession just as Major did in 92. The Conservatives are widely seen to have offered no alternative policies as yet - if they come up with something or if the downturn steepens and the government finally start looking bereft of ideas, then it will be the Tories election.

Either way its wide open. We have never been here before - a global recession hitting simulateously. It could go any way.

Someone who understands!

This Labour government has been in no way socialist. They have followed from the outset Tory policies laid down originally by Maggie Thatcher in the 1980's.

The financial problems now being experienced around the world mark the end of a political creed which claimed that lightly regulated free markets benefitted everyone.

Of course that was always a delusion. At worst an outright lie.

Anyway, its gone now. Thatcherism, Reaganomics, whatever you want to call it. Ironically, the policies put into place in an attempt to salvage the world economy are straight out of the socialist handbook.

Where do we go from here?

I haven't a bleedin' clue!

Unfortunately no-one else seems to either.

mewbie_2

Walter_J wrote: »

Where do we go from here?

We go back to work and try to retain some hope, even if misplaced, that 2009 will not be that bad. If the choice is slit wrists or get on with it, I'd rather go for the latter.

dopester

Walter_J wrote: »

This Labour government has been in no way socialist. They have followed from the outset Tory policies laid down originally by Maggie Thatcher in the 1980's.

The financial problems now being experienced around the world mark the end of a political creed which claimed that lightly regulated free markets benefitted everyone.

Yes Thatcher did revolutionise the financial sector, and it worked for the benefit of the country during her premiership, and that of John Majors... with some pain along the way, but not bank-breaking pain and the dire outlook we've got ahead of us.

What Thatcher never envisioned the near non-existant regulation of Labour's rule nor powers invested in the BoE being split in to a 3-way deal where no one was sure who did what. House prices near trebling in 11 years, all over the country. GTF. Just GTF.

I hear some friend of an insider in the military in Iran says they have WMD. Surely the Intelligence Services under Labour's rule will find that sufficient reason to invade yet another country and have a multi-billion middle-eastern war.

If you're angry now then you don't know what is coming. All the HPI of the last 11 years and more is going to be wiped away in to nothing. Kiss it goodbye.

islandannie

Deregulation and no such thing as society works ,well i,ll be surprised if it,s true.