Would you consider emigrating if the recession gets really bad here in the UK?

dopester

mr_jetlag wrote: »

IHowever more and more of my friends from abroad (Oz, Asia, US and so on) have either left or started making plans to move back. ONe of them made the comment that "The UK is talking itself to death" and the pessimism is really getting to her.

She sounds like an idiot.

mr_jetlag

dopester wrote: »

She sounds like an idiot.

Read the papers lately?

dad-of-4

I would love nothing morethan to get my family out of the UK and have felt that way for a number of year, unfortunaly silly me has a criminal record following me around so i doubt it would be possable.

dopester

mr_jetlag wrote: »

Read the papers lately?

Yes of course, but there are real factors behind the job losses and banks going under and businesses going in to administration.

It isn't just as simple as to say negative reporting of the issues are the cause of it all. Only idiots believe and try to forward that argument.

mr_jetlag

dopester wrote: »

Yes of course, but there are real factors behind the job losses and banks going under and businesses going in to administration.

It isn't just as simple as to say negative reporting of the issues are the cause of it all. Only idiots believe and try to forward that argument.

Agree that real factors cause bankruptcies, but negative sentiment itself creates a downward pressure. Without getting into a long debate, the way the media have conveniently carpet bombed us with credit crunch this and that has accelerated the pace and severity of the slow down. If you're a solvent business who needs a new credit line to expand and word gets out to your suppliers, you're toast. No expansion, no growth, no new employment --> further depression.

neverdespairgirl

If England were what England seems,
And not the England of our dreams,
But only putty, brass and paint,
'Ow quick we' d drop her....,
But she ain't.

Rudyard Kipling.


("But what should they know of England,
Who only England know?")

lostinrates

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Agree. I think a lot of the people who are moaning about the UK and stating that they are leaving are the ones who haven't travelled that widely. If they had then they would see that actually, they're blessed in the UK.

My point about people running away from thir problems has been a little misunderstood. People who are leaving the UK because they have better employment prospects or because they are sporty/outdoorsy types and feel that their lifestyle is better suited to living in Australia or in Canada (for winter sports) or for any other positive reason is one thing, and they should be able to integrate very successfully. They're leaving for positive reasons and feel the country they're going to will give them a much improved life.

People who are leaving this country because they feel the government is crap or because the economy is being missmanaged or because the weather is crap are simply negative people who won't integrate very well and will soon find new things to moan about in their new country. They're leaving for negative reasons and feel the country they are going to will not be as bad as the one they're leaving.

Hope this helps. I'm not against emigration per-say, I even considered going to Canada myself because I love skiing and winter sports (not much snow in England and no mountains to speak of) and there is a lot of demand for what I do (SAP HR & Payroll). I just feel that in order to really integrate and be happy in your new home, you have to be looking forward to the New World with optimism, not looking back at the Old Country with unhappiness.

Actually I do agree with most of this, and GGs post.

BUT, there is a caveat to my agrement, that I think we do need to recognise whats bad as wll as good, because otherwise we don't progrss towards change/betterment/continued improvement (however you see it ) with your voting choice.

I think one of Britain's problems is that we aren't British enough, not in a znophobic way, I think multiculturalism is part of Britain, but that what is wonderful about us we view as pastiche and 'old fashioned' : e.g. Lancashire hot pot and Yorkshire pudding are great but not cookd so often as pasta, yet I've never seen a hot pot in Italy!


Having thought about this a lot this morning I'm beginning to wonder if despite loving a lot of places and having convinced myself no place was lik home, I wonder if my travelling childhood has dug in more than I relaised, and I need both roots here and the oppertunity to view UK from th out side in too? I dunno. I feel more confused than ever to be honest.

dopester

mr_jetlag wrote: »

Agree that real factors cause bankruptcies, but negative sentiment itself creates a downward pressure. Without getting into a long debate, the way the media have conveniently carpet bombed us with credit crunch this and that has accelerated the pace and severity of the slow down. If you're a solvent business who needs a new credit line to expand and word gets out to your suppliers, you're toast. No expansion, no growth, no new employment --> further depression.

I understand that. Still, the media are only reporting on the absolutely shocking conditions which have led us to where we are now. An insane massive credit expansion bubble, fuelled by ever more complex but toxic financial instruments, that has bust. If you were happy to bask in the upside without worry or caution, then don't blame the press or other commentators when they report the significance of the difficult times ahead.

A trend of credit expansion has two components: the general willingness to lend and borrow and the general ability of borrowers to pay interest and principal. These components depend respectively upon (1) the trend of people’s confidence, i.e., whether both creditors and debtors think that debtors will be able to pay, and (2) the trend of production, which makes it either easier or harder in actuality for debtors to pay. So as long as confidence and production increase, the supply of credit tends to expand.

The expansion of credit ends when the desire or ability to sustain the trend can no longer be maintained. As confidence and production decrease, the supply of credit contracts. The psychological aspect of deflation and depression cannot be overstated. When the social mood trend changes from optimism to pessimism, creditors, debtors, producers and consumers change their primary orientation from expansion to conservation.

As creditors become more conservative, they slow their lending. As debtors and potential debtors become more conservative, they borrow less or not at all. As producers become more conservative, they reduce expansion plans. As consumers become more conservative, they save more and spend less. These behaviours reduce the "velocity" of money, i.e., the speed with which it circulates to make purchases, thus putting downside pressure on prices. These forces reverse the former trend.

Masomnia

This country's unique identity (which I don't believe is being eroded as fast as so many pessimists would have us believe) its culture, values, history, people etc. will always be more important to me than money and fluctations in exchange markets. Same goes for my family and friends, I wouldn't leave all of them behind to increase m spending power.

So no, I don't think I would.

Economies go in cycles, bad times, good times, bad times. I don't see the point in emigrating because of a short term dip in the markets which in a few years will recover anyway.

dopester

Masomnia wrote: »

Economies go in cycles, bad times, good times, bad times. I don't see the point in emigrating because of a short term dip in the markets which in a few years will recover anyway.

I'm not going to leave the UK or England - we've been through some rough times here in the past but held together without anarchy or descent in to extreme politics.

Neither would I buy a house in certain areas. I want to see the real impact on jobs and the economy, rather than buying in an area which goes on to suffer from very high unemployment and bleak prospects. Owning a house in certain areas might really anchor you down, when now more than ever, you might need the flexibility to move to new areas.

Depending on how much conditions worsen, renting or even lifestyles such as living in a camper-van might even appeal to me, if really having to be cautious with money.

Listening to Radio 5 in the kitchen as I made a coffee just had Martin on. Jeremy Vine was saying how some people with little in UK to hold them back were heading off abroad and living cheap in caravans, with a minimal lifestyle and expense, hoping to weather the storm and come back after conditions improve - but some had done that 6 months ago and had only seen things worsen over here beyond their expectations.