Virgin Trains are bunch of con artists IMHO. Be warned!
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Silent_Mule
Posts: 39 Forumite
in Motoring
Virgin Trains deliberately conned me out of £360 - be warned!!!!
Here is the sequence of events:
1. I bought a ticket online at www.virgintrains.co.uk on Friday 21 November, for outbound travel on 25 November, return travel on 27 November 2008.
2. I was in New York when I booked the ticket so I selected e-ticket as the delivery method – believing that there was not enough time to have a physical ticket delivered.
3. In the early hours of Sunday morning I lost the credit card that I used to pay for the ticket, in New York (along with my mobile phone and a couple of other items).
4. I realised the loss on Sunday and reported the card missing on the same day. I know where it is but, as I was i mid-air, there was no chance of retrieving
5. Being aware of the requirement to use the same card as booked with the ticket, I called Virgin Trains (once on the ground) to ask what alternative identification could be used. I was told that there was no other suitable form of identification that could be used. I spent the next 45 minutes on an expensive 0870 number speaking to various people trying to explain that it was physically impossible for me to present that card as it was in New York and I was in London.
6. I explained that I could produce – the most recent credit card statement for the card; my passport; and my driving licence so as to, absolutely, beyond all reasonable doubt, establish my identity, along with numerous other cards linked to the same account. I was told that even if I took all of these I would be denied access to the train.
7. I was advised that I should get a crime reference number from the police. I pointed out that, as no crime had been committed, to do so would be to commit fraud, possibly perjury, and could be construed as wasting police time. Personally, I am not keen on committing any of those offences.
8. I was told that I should try to speak with the ticket office at Euston station.
9. I went to the ticket office and produced a) the e-ticket, b) a print out of the confirmation e-mail with my reference number, c) my driving licence, d) a copy of the credit card statement, for the card used to purchase the ticket, with my name and address on.
11. The ticket clerk informed me that there was nothing he could do but went to get his supervisor. (Fair enough, he's a junior and may want a senior opinion.)
12. The supervisor came and informed me that the only option was to purchase a new ticket.
13. I explained to the supervisor that I had been advised to check with the ticket office when I got to the station to see if anything could be done.
14. His response was “why would they tell you that?”.
15. My reply was, “I have no idea, but they did”. Er, I cannot be expected to understand why people at Virgin Trains would make a recommendation on anything.
16. Again I was told that my only option was to buy a new ticket.
17. I pointed out to him that, in my view, this represented a flaw in Virgin Train’s policies – for example, if I had been unfortunate enough to be mugged on the way to the station but still had my ticket Virgin’s policies would effectively add to my stress.
18. The supervisor agreed that this might be a flaw but that he was not able to do anything to help me. Again, my only option was to buy a new ticket.
19. I asked whether this represented a breach of contract by Virgin Trains and was told by the supervisor that, actually, I was the one in breach for having lost my credit card and that if I wanted to make it a legal issue I was welcome to but the law was on Virgin Train’s side. (So, if a customer loses a credit card, or has it stolen, it would seem that the view of Virgin Trains is that the customer is committing a breach of contract - interesting!)
20. At this point, I realised that the only way I would be allowed to board the train would be by buying a new ticket.
21. The supervisor left and I asked the clerk for a new ticket.
22. I was absolutely gobsmacked to be charged £360 – especially given that the original purchase had been £95.50 AND given the fact that Virgin Trains Customer Service advised me to talk to the station staff on the day! (A scam? Certainly seems that way.)
23. I then said “this is turning into a f***ing nightmare”. It is important to note that this comment was not directed in any way at the ticketing clerk (or anyone else) and was said in a calm voice. It was directed at the situation. I should also point out that this is not just a case of my word against one of their employees. I have a witness who has said that he will gladly stand up in court and verify my side of the story.
24. The ticketing clerk told me that if I swore again he would have me arrested, removed from the station, and I would be refused travel on this and ALL future Virgin Trains.
25. I asked on what grounds I would be arrested. I was simply met with the same comment, i.e. that if I swore again I would be arrested.
26. In the end I feel I was forced, unfairly, to buy a new ticket and that in the process I was made to feel worthless as a Virgin Trains customer
Note, I have to travel to Manchester every week; New York every month; Nigeria on a frequent basis. I shall do everything in my power to ensure that I never use a Virgin service of any sort ever again! EVER! And, as CEO of my company, I am making it corporate policy that we never use virgin unless there is no alternative and then that we book through another provider so as to at least deprive Virgin of any commission and thereby reduce their profits by as much as humanly possible.
In my view this lack of ability to utilise another form of identification with the e-ticket:
a) Represents a flaw in Virgin’s policies that cause unnecessary stress and suffering to innocent passengers
b) Penalises people who, more than 24 hours before departure, genuinely try to sort out a logistical problem
I would also think this whole process is an abuse of position. I am the CEO of a multinational company and were I to treat my customers in this way I would soon lose them. I can only imagine that either a) the process has not been properly thought out, or b) the fact that they have a captive audience means that they don’t feel that they need to pay due attention to the needs of their customers.
(And all of this stress has been caused because I had the temerity to lose my credit card!)
Interestingly, every single person I have relayed this story to has a similar tale of woe relating to Virgin Trains. That does lead me to believe that Richard Branson has more than an inkling and has allowed this abuse to occur in his watch. It makes me feel that he is not to be trusted in any of his businesses.
Anyone know what my legal position is? Under Gordon Brown's watch, I suspect I have no rights! (Apart from voting against Labour in the next election!)
Here is the sequence of events:
1. I bought a ticket online at www.virgintrains.co.uk on Friday 21 November, for outbound travel on 25 November, return travel on 27 November 2008.
2. I was in New York when I booked the ticket so I selected e-ticket as the delivery method – believing that there was not enough time to have a physical ticket delivered.
3. In the early hours of Sunday morning I lost the credit card that I used to pay for the ticket, in New York (along with my mobile phone and a couple of other items).
4. I realised the loss on Sunday and reported the card missing on the same day. I know where it is but, as I was i mid-air, there was no chance of retrieving
5. Being aware of the requirement to use the same card as booked with the ticket, I called Virgin Trains (once on the ground) to ask what alternative identification could be used. I was told that there was no other suitable form of identification that could be used. I spent the next 45 minutes on an expensive 0870 number speaking to various people trying to explain that it was physically impossible for me to present that card as it was in New York and I was in London.
6. I explained that I could produce – the most recent credit card statement for the card; my passport; and my driving licence so as to, absolutely, beyond all reasonable doubt, establish my identity, along with numerous other cards linked to the same account. I was told that even if I took all of these I would be denied access to the train.
7. I was advised that I should get a crime reference number from the police. I pointed out that, as no crime had been committed, to do so would be to commit fraud, possibly perjury, and could be construed as wasting police time. Personally, I am not keen on committing any of those offences.
8. I was told that I should try to speak with the ticket office at Euston station.
9. I went to the ticket office and produced a) the e-ticket, b) a print out of the confirmation e-mail with my reference number, c) my driving licence, d) a copy of the credit card statement, for the card used to purchase the ticket, with my name and address on.
11. The ticket clerk informed me that there was nothing he could do but went to get his supervisor. (Fair enough, he's a junior and may want a senior opinion.)
12. The supervisor came and informed me that the only option was to purchase a new ticket.
13. I explained to the supervisor that I had been advised to check with the ticket office when I got to the station to see if anything could be done.
14. His response was “why would they tell you that?”.
15. My reply was, “I have no idea, but they did”. Er, I cannot be expected to understand why people at Virgin Trains would make a recommendation on anything.
16. Again I was told that my only option was to buy a new ticket.
17. I pointed out to him that, in my view, this represented a flaw in Virgin Train’s policies – for example, if I had been unfortunate enough to be mugged on the way to the station but still had my ticket Virgin’s policies would effectively add to my stress.
18. The supervisor agreed that this might be a flaw but that he was not able to do anything to help me. Again, my only option was to buy a new ticket.
19. I asked whether this represented a breach of contract by Virgin Trains and was told by the supervisor that, actually, I was the one in breach for having lost my credit card and that if I wanted to make it a legal issue I was welcome to but the law was on Virgin Train’s side. (So, if a customer loses a credit card, or has it stolen, it would seem that the view of Virgin Trains is that the customer is committing a breach of contract - interesting!)
20. At this point, I realised that the only way I would be allowed to board the train would be by buying a new ticket.
21. The supervisor left and I asked the clerk for a new ticket.
22. I was absolutely gobsmacked to be charged £360 – especially given that the original purchase had been £95.50 AND given the fact that Virgin Trains Customer Service advised me to talk to the station staff on the day! (A scam? Certainly seems that way.)
23. I then said “this is turning into a f***ing nightmare”. It is important to note that this comment was not directed in any way at the ticketing clerk (or anyone else) and was said in a calm voice. It was directed at the situation. I should also point out that this is not just a case of my word against one of their employees. I have a witness who has said that he will gladly stand up in court and verify my side of the story.
24. The ticketing clerk told me that if I swore again he would have me arrested, removed from the station, and I would be refused travel on this and ALL future Virgin Trains.
25. I asked on what grounds I would be arrested. I was simply met with the same comment, i.e. that if I swore again I would be arrested.
26. In the end I feel I was forced, unfairly, to buy a new ticket and that in the process I was made to feel worthless as a Virgin Trains customer
Note, I have to travel to Manchester every week; New York every month; Nigeria on a frequent basis. I shall do everything in my power to ensure that I never use a Virgin service of any sort ever again! EVER! And, as CEO of my company, I am making it corporate policy that we never use virgin unless there is no alternative and then that we book through another provider so as to at least deprive Virgin of any commission and thereby reduce their profits by as much as humanly possible.
In my view this lack of ability to utilise another form of identification with the e-ticket:
a) Represents a flaw in Virgin’s policies that cause unnecessary stress and suffering to innocent passengers
b) Penalises people who, more than 24 hours before departure, genuinely try to sort out a logistical problem
I would also think this whole process is an abuse of position. I am the CEO of a multinational company and were I to treat my customers in this way I would soon lose them. I can only imagine that either a) the process has not been properly thought out, or b) the fact that they have a captive audience means that they don’t feel that they need to pay due attention to the needs of their customers.
(And all of this stress has been caused because I had the temerity to lose my credit card!)
Interestingly, every single person I have relayed this story to has a similar tale of woe relating to Virgin Trains. That does lead me to believe that Richard Branson has more than an inkling and has allowed this abuse to occur in his watch. It makes me feel that he is not to be trusted in any of his businesses.
Anyone know what my legal position is? Under Gordon Brown's watch, I suspect I have no rights! (Apart from voting against Labour in the next election!)
Are Virgin Trains operating a scam fares policy? 14 votes
Yes
35%
5 votes
No
64%
9 votes
0
Comments
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NoSorry to hear whats happened, you could try this, might work, might not?
As you havn't had your tickets delivered to yourself via post or by e-ticket and that you paid by credit card you should be allowed by your credit card company to do a 'charge back'. Virgin can't contest this as their own system will say that the tickets havn't been issued.Whoa! This image violates our terms of use and has been removed from view0 -
Why do you claim to have been "conned" ?
You state: "5. Being aware of the requirement to use the same card as booked with the ticket". You knew what problems you might experience - how can this be a con ? - you accepted their Ts & Cs when you booked the ticket.
Your point 19 blows a hole in your argument - when you bought the tickets you agreed to use your card to get the tickets from the machine - if you could not produce the card YOU were, strictly speaking, in breach of contract.Virgin's system might be clumsy, non-user friendly, stupid, inflexible: their staff might be unyeilding jobsworths - but - the bottom line is that YOU lost your card not Virgin or anyone else !
You have no legal recourse and as you are "the CEO of a multinational company" I expect you have had worse things happen to you than lose £360 and if your knowledge of common Contract Law is that thin ................................
Funny, I don't see many other CEO's asking for advice on this site.
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YesI think this is a valuable lesson to everyone. In my view the train operators in this country (not just virgin) are a bunch of crooks. The cost of train travel is now so expensive that when we go to London on business it is cheaper to book a limo rather than travel by train if there is two or more of us.
Virgins Ts&Cs are clearly extreamly unflexible and the penalty for this simple mistake is disproportionate. Virgin have clearly acted in bad faith here and I cant belive that people do business with organisations such as this.
How many times have there been stories on here about people that have neen ripped off by train companies.
My advice - Never travel by train in the UK0 -
NoI agree you had a bad experience.
But I find it hard to believe that you are "the CEO of a multinational company" if you don't understand contracts. Are you an eBay seller that ships abroad?
Incidently, where were you travelling to from Euston and what time of day?0 -
What train ticket costs £360?! Mine is £160 and thats North-East to South-West!
Anyway, totally agree on the above point about how expensive train travel is now, and the rip off it's becoming. It's actually cheaper for me to fly now rather than train...and a 5th of the time!0 -
moonrakerz wrote: »Funny, I don't see many other CEO's asking for advice on this site.
Their PAs must post on their behalf.
Strangely the PA probably books their train tickets too0 -
Strange.
I have had at least two experiences of buying tickets for delivery by Fast Ticket (the machines at stations that require your card and code and then print your ticket) when the machine failed to deliver. Each time, I went to the booking office with my code and was given the tickets, and I don't think I was asked for my card.
All in all, I think this is a wind-up.0 -
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Silent_Mule wrote: »Virgin Trains deliberately conned me out of £360
You seem to be blaming Virgin Trains for you losing your own credit card?"Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"0 -
Silent_Mule wrote: »I am the CEO of a multinational company
How come you didn't have a driver waiting for you at the airport?
Other CEOS of multinational companies don't have to go by train."Love you Dave Brooker! x"
"i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"0
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