Planning to move to london??

Sapphire

phil_b wrote: »

£25k really isn't a big wage. I don't see what is so unrealistic about expecting it (or there abouts) as a graduate starting wage in London.

I beleive everyone has the capacity to earn at least £40k without a big fuss. You just need ideas, ambition, beleif in what you're worth and to get your thumb out of your butt and have a go.

Nonsense – it depends entirely on what profession you go for. If you work in publishing, for instance, you will be lucky to earn £40k (or even £30k) even after many years experience at senior level in top publishing companies – but then no one goes into publishing to earn big money, but to have a relatively interesting job.

I know clever people who have just left university with computer-related degrees who can't even get jobs, let alone at £25k.

phil_b_2

Hi again Kyllle,

Interesting that you're in that line of work. I'm a freelance web developer and have been professionally for the last 3-4 years (graduated in '05, with 1st class BA hons in multimedia design like you). I'm mostly requested for my skills in flash development (a lot to do with dynamic content and external data sources using php/mysql), and regularly fully build content managed websites.

As an idea for wage. I don't want to sound like I'm boasting and don't often mention my earnings, but if you are good at what you do and are professional with your client dealings and hitting deadlines/budgets you can make good money going self-employed.

I made £45k last year without breaking a sweat and am on course for about £60-70k this year with more effort, gaining about £8k in my best month. I'm still waiting for the perfect web based money making idea to come so I can earn money while I sit on my butt watching TV...

phil_b_2

Sapphire wrote: »

Nonsense – it depends entirely on what profession you go for. If you work in publishing, for instance, you will be lucky to earn £40k (or even £30k) even after many years experience at senior level in top publishing companies – but then no one goes into publishing to earn big money, but to have a relatively interesting job.

I know clever people who have just left university with computer-related degrees who can't even get jobs, let alone at £25k.

I'm not talking about yer typical 'start on the bottom rung employed' type position. There are good livings to be made working for yourself if you just engage the brain a bit. So many people just settle in a position and have no ambition. I know many who are very smart and regularly joke about how they did nothing in their job today and how slack and cushy it is (as well as being low paid).

I think it is often a mentality thing. If your mates around you lack ambition and are low paid, you will, and you'll beleive you have found your place in the world. It just takes one good idea and some drive (and perhaps a bit of luck!). I know it's not as easy as I make out to make a go of something but I think many folk can do a lot better.

eltawater

Ok,
Don't take this the wrong way buuuuuuuuuuuut...
Your experience and skillset reads to me more like web content editor leaning on a bit of technical fiddling as opposed to hardcore development and systems engineering.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing as there is work out there for good editorial content editors with an eye for design and what works on the web.

However, I'd recommend that you decide pretty sharpish whether you want to continue down the content editor route or progress into software development. I'm afraid CSS, XHTML and Javascript aren't going to make you stand out from the pack, as these skills are two a penny (no offence).

Any competent Flash and Photoshop skills you may have will make you attractive to more design based jobs in media agencies. Bear in mind though that the new media agencies in London used to survive a lot on corporate re-branding, public launches and events, and these income streams are being hit hard.

The development side is also starting to look a bit grim as companies start to make redundancies and cut contractors. I expect more and more experienced developers to be flooding the market place come the new year, and you will find it tough to compete as these people may accept a similar salary to what you are looking for but with many years more experience. Plenty of PHP and .Net contractors needing to bag any work they can to pay their mortgages.

I hit similar market conditions when I graduated in 2001 (dotcom bubble bursting) and it was a very very bad time to be seeking work in London with little or no experience, going up against all those who had just lost their jobs.

My best advice to you is: pick a skill side, get very very very good at it and build up a healthy portfolio of work.

kyllle

Many thanks phil for your advice, basically iv been working really hard since finishing uni trying to increase my experience and skill base in order to move on in the web industry and I plan to continue this until im ready to make the move to london in the new year when i know getting a new job will be as much down to luck as anything else but its interesting to know how much there is to be made being self employed and could be a good strategy to get me through until i can seal a job, like you im super dedicated and very professional in my presentation.

phil_b_2

eltawater wrote: »

Ok,
Don't take this the wrong way buuuuuuuuuuuut...
Your experience and skillset reads to me more like web content editor leaning on a bit of technical fiddling as opposed to hardcore development and systems engineering.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing as there is work out there for good editorial content editors with an eye for design and what works on the web.

However, I'd recommend that you decide pretty sharpish whether you want to continue down the content editor route or progress into software development. I'm afraid CSS, XHTML and Javascript aren't going to make you stand out from the pack, as these skills are two a penny (no offence).

I sorta picked up on this too when reading the OP's posts. Well said. I'd agree the run-of-the-mill skills won't make you competative enough.

eltawater wrote: »

The development side is also starting to look a bit grim as companies start to make redundancies and cut contractors.

I'm not so sure I'd agree, it's pretty good being a contractor at the moment. Many companies don't want the fixed overheads or burden of perminant employees sat in the office twiddling their thumbs. they would rather take on contractors with whom they can dispense with when not needed. I've noticed an increase in demand if anything. As long as you're good enough to be at the top of the crop and remain competative on price I think you'll do well. Easy for someone with more experience of course.

eltawater wrote: »

I hit similar market conditions when I graduated in 2001 (dotcom bubble bursting) and it was a very very bad time to be seeking work in London with little or no experience, going up against all those who had just lost their jobs..

I think a big problem back then was that every man and his dog thought they were a web designer because they could make a blob tween accross the stage in flash. The amount of shoddy sites that came out of that era was shocking. These people thought they could get away with comanding high fees as it was a new and exciting technology that everyone wanted, and they were a master of it (they werent). The vast amount of duff web guys became unstuck while the good ones survived, and rightly so.
A big problem in the industry, though, is that many clients don't really know a good developer if they get slapped by one. There are still a lot of cowboys out there yeilding their dreamweaver template axes.

m1ntie

"the knowledge" is a very detailed test that London taxi drivers have to take.

They basically need to know the whole of London like the back of their hands, including best routes etc. I am told it takes several years to aquire this knowledge and pass the test.

kyllle

Basically I have always felt more of a web content editor than my title of developer within my job and to be honest web sditing does appeal to me more than developing etc i think this is probably due to my need to have content looking appealing to the user at all times and my constant perfectionism towards the viewing experience as opposed to the coding elements. Thanks for helping me out on this one guys as I probably will turn my attention to becoming as good as possible in the editing side of the web as basically I feel my skills and experience def fall better into this category!!

skintchick

THere are loads of web editor jobs out there - I know cos I was trying to get one! Not that I'm qualified in web but I have editing skills ... Anyway, that type of work is out there, and the money for them isn't bad (one was 35k but it did want other skills you don't appear to have or at least haven't mentioned) but the competition is fierce.

Just check it all out thoroughly before making the move.

MeNikki

A word of advice for your girlfriend, London is full of people with multiple language skills. So French and Spanish are nothing special (sorry, just being honest) and unless she can combine her language skills with another skill it will be hard to hit your target of £25K starting salary. A good friend of mine has a degree in 7 European languages and even he with around 10 years of experience in translating is finding it so hard to find a permanent job that he has done some temping work recently.
Many other intelligent multi lingual speakers that I know (whether from the UK or abroad) are finding it hard to find a job earning more than between £15K and £22K.

So again, my advice to her would be to do plenty of research and in the languages field many of the first interviews can be conducted over the phone as they are meant to determine if you actually speak the languages to a standard required.

The company I work for and many others that have a need for a multitude of languages now prefer to get temps in for specific language skills rather than have them employed full-time or outsource work to cheaper parts in the world.

Sorry if it sounds all doom and gloom, but in this climate it's worth doing plenty of research and being realistic.

Good Luck!