Energy Direct Debits: Get money back & your payments lowered Discussion

Gerry1

tripcode wrote: »

ok thanks Gerry, so that's without even submitting a 'direct debit indemnity' where you claim back the money or basically stop it going out if you do it fast enough?

I don't recall having to submit any 'direct debit indemnity' form. The Direct Debit guarantee site to which I referred has lots of useful information. It states "To request a refund under the Direct Debit Guarantee*, contact your bank in person at the branch, by phone or write to them."

It also states:-

Should your bank fail to provide a refund under the terms of the Guarantee:
Contact them again in writing, escalating the communication to your Branch Manager or Customer Service Manager and cite the Direct Debit Guarantee.

It's probably worth looking at your bank's website to find out the details of their process. But the key point remains, if the wrong amount has been debited you are entitled to a full and immediate refund from the bank. They may need to be firmly reminded of that.

Biscuit_Tin

tripcode wrote: »

Hello

Am looking for other people's experiences of being overcharged by an energy company through a single 'mistake' direct debit charge. What has happened is that instead of an amount of xx being taken an amount of xxxx has been taken. So thousands instead of tens. I have been told to go to my bank and fill out a direct debit indemnity form to stop the money coming out but this need to be done today, otherwise I am without money for up to 8 days, they say.

I visited my bank today and they said to speak to the energy company. I don't have time to go back today and also don't have internet banking or phone banking as yet due to just switching to the bank.

I will get the money back but does anyone have any experience here over compensation levels for bills bouncing and also being without money?

tripcode wrote: »

ok thanks Gerry, so that's without even submitting a 'direct debit indemnity' where you claim back the money or basically stop it going out if you do it fast enough?

I kind of think that the bank should have stopped it anyway using common sense.

I am looking for compensation too from the energy company, which I won't mention just now but plan to later on.

It's such a massive amount and has caused such hassle that I feel it's worth a substantial amount.

Using the direct debit scheme really is not a hassle. It is unfortunate, but not unusual, that your bank does not understand the process correctly.

You are always given advance notice of the amount to be collected (as well as the date). One of the reasons for the advance notice is so that if an error has been made, then you can contact the supplier and get them to correct, or at least not collect, the incorrect amount.

That's how it's meant to work, but sometimes the supplier can't be bothered to recall the collection file that probably was submitted to the bank the same time as the advance notices were sent out.
So they tell you to claim direct from the bank.
That's actually not a good idea as far as the supplier is concerned, as all claims under the direct debit scheme are logged with the supplier's sponsoring bank, and if there are too many claims, the supplier may lose their sponsor, and hence the ability to operate the direct debit scheme.

However, if the amount has already been collected, you need to make a claim direct to your bank, not the supplier.

You cannot claim from the bank until the incorrect amount (or incorrect date it was collected) has occurred, as until then, no error has occurred.

You are not making an indemnity claim. You are making a claim under the terms of the direct debit guarantee, a copy of which is always provided whenever you set up a direct debit instruction.

Under the terms of the direct debit guarantee, you contact the bank if/when an incorrect amount is taken (or it's taken on the wrong date), and the bank will refund you immediately, at least by the end of the working day.

If the bank don't refund you, follow the bank's complaint procedure.

Over the years, I have made a number of claims under the direct debit guarantee with various banks, and have never had to put anything in writing. The bank are expected to take your word for it (at least initially), and the refund will be shown on your bank account.

The indemnity claim is the process by which the bank reclaims the money from the supplier, but not anything you need to concern yourself with.

In regards to your hopes of compensation, the direct debit scheme allows for what the scheme refers to as consequential losses. This is usually any bank charges that you incured directly as a result of the erroneous direct debit collection that you apply to be refunded. Your bank will know themselves what these are, as they applied (or will apply) them to your account. You need to ask your bank to refund these too. Any other consequential loss you wish to claim for, you will need to provide full details and evidence to your bank, as it will all form part of your claim under the direct debit guarantee. Hence it is your bank that will refund you consequential losses too.

But unlike the original, erroneous amount collected, which as I said needs to be refunded immediately by your bank, all consequential losses can take up to 14 days to be refunded to you by your bank (as they need to first collect those from the supplier).

That is is the extent to which the direct debit guarantee protects you.
Any additional claim for compo you want to pursue, you will need to address directly with the supplier in the usual way.

Devonian_Rodders

Unlike many contributors on this theme, I am experiencing "YO YO"  D/D's  at wrong time of year. To explain, Mid summer last year (following official meter reading) I was asked to pay almost £90 to balance the account for gas, with an increase in DD payment. By September, I had accrued a large balance which was refunded in December (well  in excess of the £90 paid mid June) and DD's were reduced.  This month the energy company requested a meter reading, and a bill followed showing I was yet again  some £90 in arears and DD's would increase again.
 My complaint is that given all the "technology" at suppliers disposal, they are unable to realise that consumption goes up in the winter months (as previous readings show) and reduce in summer.      I am advised by the supplier that accounts are reviewed twice a year, and any excess is repaid, following instructions from the regulator, and cannot be changed.
Being of pensionable age, it is essential I maintain a steady budget, and not be subject to ever changing increases and subsequent refunds at the start of the high usage period.  Fortunately I did not have a "beano" over the Christmas period with the refund paid in December.
As yet I have not ventured into the smart meter 'circuit' since I envisaged the above would be part of the suppliers idea of so called accuracy and increase/decrease DD's as and when.

danr111

Hi All,

Just received an email from British Gas saying I have a bill. I checked the app and found the bill saying  I owe them £1100 for 10 months energy (based on accurate read meter readings). I pay a £100 direct debit each month £50 gas and £50 electric. It turns out that my electric usage is through the roof, which I am currently querying as I am using 3 to 4 times what I believed I should be using.

Upon reading the email I realised that following a meter reading I gave in December ( I had to do this via phone as both the app and site were down) I had another bill for £580. This bill stated that my gas use age was average and they increased my direct debit to £57.96, while the electric was very high the direct debit wasn't changed even though within the bill it says they are increasing my direct debit for the electric.

I did not receive notification of this bill or the direct debit change. While british gas says they did inform me, I would of course contacted british gas and queried the bill and dealt with the problem before it became this severe. I did notice my direct debit increase but as it was only minor I assumed everything was ok. I believe the company have failed on a few fronts which has led to my bill being unmanageable. On the off chance that it is not a meter fault and I have some faulty appliances I would like to know my rights as I don't believe I should pay some of this for the following reasons:

• Did not receive notification of a bill in December- app and site were down and didn't get an email
• Did not receive notification of increase in direct debit for my gas
• Electricity did not increase to reflect my usage (even though the bill states that it should and therefore contradicts itself)

What are your thoughts?

danr111

Hi All,

Just received an email from British Gas saying I have a bill. I checked the app and found the bill saying  I owe them £1100 for 10 months energy (based on accurate read meter readings). I pay a £100 direct debit each month £50 gas and £50 electric. It turns out that my electric usage is through the roof, which I am currently querying as I am using 3 to 4 times what I believed I should be using.

Upon reading the email I realised that following a meter reading I gave in December ( I had to do this via phone as both the app and site were down) I had another bill for £580. This bill stated that my gas use age was average and they increased my direct debit to £57.96, while the electric was very high the direct debit wasn't changed even though within the bill it says they are increasing my direct debit for the electric.

I did not receive notification of this bill or the direct debit change. While british gas says they did inform me, I would of course contacted british gas and queried the bill and dealt with the problem before it became this severe. I did notice my direct debit increase but as it was only minor I assumed everything was ok. I believe the company have failed on a few fronts which has led to my bill being unmanageable. On the off chance that it is not a meter fault and I have some faulty appliances I would like to know my rights as I don't believe I should pay some of this for the following reasons:

• Did not receive notification of a bill in December- app and site were down and didn't get an email
• Did not receive notification of increase in direct debit for my gas
• Electricity did not increase to reflect my usage (even though the bill states that it should and therefore contradicts itself)

What are your thoughts?

Robin9

The only notification you will get is within the bill - don't expect a separate email.

Could you reply to your other thread about the detective work you are doing to identify your electric use please.

r.o.b

With smart meters, why isn't there an option to pay for what I've used per month instead of a prediction that's often incorrect. Other utilities - my phone bill, water bill and and my heat bill (from switch2) - all charge by usage.  It seems to be some sort of historical throwback that electricity bills charge using a 12 month prediction, which seems especially dated as they have the exact readings using the smart meter.  I asked my current supplier (Bristol Energy) why they don't do this, they just said this is the way it works.  Isn't it time the industry modernised?  Right now I'm paying too much per month and Bristol Energy owe me £107, despite having a smart meter.  It seems the point of it is being lost.

Biscuit_Tin

r.o.b said:

With smart meters, why isn't there an option to pay for what I've used per month instead of a prediction that's often incorrect. Other utilities - my phone bill, water bill and and my heat bill (from switch2) - all charge by usage.  It seems to be some sort of historical throwback that electricity bills charge using a 12 month prediction, which seems especially dated as they have the exact readings using the smart meter.  I asked my current supplier (Bristol Energy) why they don't do this, they just said this is the way it works.  Isn't it time the industry modernised?  Right now I'm paying too much per month and Bristol Energy owe me £107, despite having a smart meter.  It seems the point of it is being lost.

There are many suppliers that offer you the option to pay on receipt of bill. This tends to be the larger and more established suppliers, as the cost for them is higher (and that oncost may be passed onto you if you chose this type of payment)

Bristol Energy is a relatively small and new supplier, but I see they do offer you the possibilty of paying on receipt of bill
https://www.bristol-energy.co.uk/customer-care/your-energy-bill-explained
Such bills will be monthly (as opposed to quarterly that most suppliers still bill on for those customers that pay on receipt of bill)

However, unlike other suppliers, unfortunately Bristol Energy does not currently allow you to pay on receipt of bill via direct debit, although this is something they are working on for the future.

Gerry1

r.o.b said:

Isn't it time the industry modernised?

If Ofgem were any good, they'd have mandated that all energy companies should also offer variable direct debits, preferably making them the default.

At best, fixed direct debits cause endless confusion, even among Forumites who might be expected to be more clued up than most consumers; there are umpteen threads along the lines of 'Help ! My fixed rate contract with Acme Energy promised a DD of £50/month but they've increased it to £100/month'.

At worst, it encourages dozens of Ponzi schemes to spring up which then collapse and have to be bailed out by their honest competitors.

Talldave

r.o.b said:

I asked my current supplier (Bristol Energy) why they don't do this, they just said this is the way it works.  Isn't it time the industry modernised?

Yes, very much so. The energy industry is so far behind it's archaic.  Is it just Octopus that does things differently?
Phone companies manage without stupid estimates and even water companies do better.