Private Parking Tickets discussion

slinky_crazy

I parked in a clearly bayed area outside a friend's flat in plymouth a while ago, we looked around for signs and couldn't see any, he said it was obviously parking for the flat but as he hasn't a car he hadn't used it before. It was 2am and dark. I left at 10am to discover I had a £100 parking fine from Valley Enforcement.

Unfortunately I sent a letter of appeal, with a SAE stamped envelope as the ticket suggested and have just recieved back, what I've discovered from a google search, to be a templated message back. They clearly hadn't even read my letter! I asked for information on a further appeal process if they were to decline me on this occasion and this hasn't been given. I said the signs were not lit and that I therefore couldnt see them, it also says the charges imposed are obvious but the sign didnt even state how much and it was small and on the wall to the flats not even erected within the bays.

I've now read the article (I wish I'd read it earlier!) and my question is whether Valley Enforcement are a private company? People have told me that private companies do not have access to DVLA records but the valley enforcement website says "once PCN's have been issued any non payments are referred and pursued through the DVLA via our debt collection agency throughout the UK".

The vehicle is an old partners, the log book is in his name, but I was driving. I want to fight this as I believe it is an absolute travesty that these companies are allowed to operate, particularly with such extortionate fees, but I don't want my ex to run any risk.

I don't know what to do now. Should I still ignore? As i've allready made contact have I admitted liability? Has anyone else had any run ins with this company? I genuinely can't afford to pay this fine, I'm barely getting by and can't find employment and now I'm terrified about it.

Thanks guys

trisontana

Yes Valley Enforcement are a private company, and private companies (unfortunately) can obtain this information from the DVLA. From now on just ignore them. You might get more letters from them, but just hold tight and they will eventually lose interest in you. By the way, it's not a "fine" just an unenforceable invoice.

Coupon-mad

slinky_crazy wrote: »

I parked in a clearly bayed area outside a friend's flat in plymouth a while ago, we looked around for signs and couldn't see any, he said it was obviously parking for the flat but as he hasn't a car he hadn't used it before. It was 2am and dark. I left at 10am to discover I had a £100 parking fine from Valley Enforcement.

Unfortunately I sent a letter of appeal, with a SAE stamped envelope as the ticket suggested and have just recieved back, what I've discovered from a google search, to be a templated message back. They clearly hadn't even read my letter! I asked for information on a further appeal process if they were to decline me on this occasion and this hasn't been given. I said the signs were not lit and that I therefore couldnt see them, it also says the charges imposed are obvious but the sign didnt even state how much and it was small and on the wall to the flats not even erected within the bays.

I've now read the article (I wish I'd read it earlier!) and my question is whether Valley Enforcement are a private company? People have told me that private companies do not have access to DVLA records but the valley enforcement website says "once PCN's have been issued any non payments are referred and pursued through the DVLA via our debt collection agency throughout the UK".

The vehicle is an old partners, the log book is in his name, but I was driving. I want to fight this as I believe it is an absolute travesty that these companies are allowed to operate, particularly with such extortionate fees, but I don't want my ex to run any risk.

I don't know what to do now. Should I still ignore? As i've allready made contact have I admitted liability? Has anyone else had any run ins with this company? I genuinely can't afford to pay this fine, I'm barely getting by and can't find employment and now I'm terrified about it.

Thanks guys

There is NO RISK. As trisontana says, it's not a real 'fine'.

You will need to warn your ex that he may get letters about this charge as well, including scary letters threatening court because that's how the scam scares people into paying. PPCs can and do get keeper's details from the DVLA - but that doesn't suddenly make the charge legit.

They don't 'pursue the fine through the DVLA via our debt collection agency' (that's gobbledygook!). They may well get the keeper's details from the DVLA but that's the only involvement by the DVLA.

Neither you nor your ex will get taken to Court nor will it have any effect on your credit records, you can relax but you need to both be ready for the letters from 'debt-collectors' and 'solicitors'.

Tell your ex that this is a scam just like Nigerian begging emails, it's no more legit than those.

Methusela

Coupon-mad wrote: »

There is NO RISK. As trisontana says, it's not a real 'fine'.

You will need to warn your ex that he may get letters about this charge as well, including scary letters threatening court because that's how the scam scares people into paying. PPCs can and do get keeper's details from the DVLA - but that doesn't suddenly make the charge legit.

Neither you nor your ex will get taken to Court nor will it have any effect on your credit records, you can relax but you need to both be ready for the letters from 'debt-collectors' and 'solicitors'.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm not sure why Valleyenforcement would want to spend £2.50 getting the rk's details from dvla, when slinky_crazy says she has already written to them with a s.a.e. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If she has already given them her name and address and admitted to being the driver won't that change things a bit?[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

Methusela wrote: »

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I'm not sure why Valleyenforcement would want to spend £2.50 getting the rk's details from dvla, when slinky_crazy says she has already written to them with a s.a.e. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If she has already given them her name and address and admitted to being the driver won't that change things a bit?[/FONT]

Yes, the PPC will probably save themselves the £2.50 in this case. They have a flippin' cheek requiring 'appeals with an SAE' so they save the postage costs on the first threatening letter. :mad:

Even so, slinky_crazy doesn't have to cave and pay, same advice as ever, ignore from now on. It may be worth slinky_crazy getting a few photos now, of the car park with its lack of signage - not to send to the PPC of course but just for 'evidence' in the unlikely event it would be needed. And of course keep all the threatening letters filed away safely as 'evidence' of the threatening nature of this extortionate demand as well.

If the PPC were ever stupid enough to actually attempt Court then slinky_crazy should post on pepipoo.com for the right approach to ensure a successful defence.

Still nothing to worry about.

Methusela

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If the PPC were ever stupid enough to actually attempt Court then slinky_crazy should post on pepipoo.com for the right approach to ensure a successful defence.
Still nothing to worry about.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]I'm worried that maybe I didn't phrase my original question correctly, so hope you don't think I'm just repeating myself for the sake of it, or - even worse - just being a nuisance. But I am still concerned about slinky_crazy's admission that she wrote an appeal letter. Let me explain this concern in more detail.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As I understand it, the way the scam works is that the PPC only have a claim against the driver of the vehicle and not against the owner, registered keeper, hirer or anyone else. The PPC's problem is how to find out who the driver was because, once they know that, they can make a perfectly legitimate claim against him or her, which could eventually become enforceable by a court, if not paid.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]When they apply to DVLA they only get the rk's name and at this point they have no evidence to show who was driving the vehicle, so they can't take legal action, even though they might threaten it. Just so long as they can't prove who was driving, the recommended course of action is simply not to contact them and ignore all the claims and threats they send you. This would work, because they cannot take legal action against the driver when they don't know who that was.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But having paid DVLA to obtain the r.k.'s name and address, the PPC then try to get money out of the r.k. by one of two methods – Firstly they threaten solicitors, bailiffs, court action and continuously escalating charges, without explaining that only the driver would be liable to pay these charges. They hope that this will be enough to frighten payment out of the r.k., who probably won't know that he/she is not liable (unless he/she wants to admit to also being the driver).[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Secondly – and this is the dangerous part – the PPC dangle a carrot of hope, by offering the chance to appeal against their charge. Many of those faced with a PCN for the first time might be tempted to try the appeal route. They might hope that those very reasonable parking people could be swayed by the sad story of how the charge was wrong because “it was dark.......they didn't see the signs....they thought a disabled badge exempted them...the attendant said it would be ok....etc, etc”.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But everyone who reads these posts knows that the one and only reason they want you to appeal is because in writing your appeal letter you will probably be convicting yourself! If you say “I didn't see the signs..etc” then they have your written admission that you were the driver. So they are off and running with a proven case against you. And by sending a stamped addressed envelope for their reply you have neatly told them whether you are the r.k. or someone else - all they need to know about you as the self-admitted driver, so they can really get the legal wheels rolling in earnest. They know that if they had written asking you to tell them who the driver was (which is what they are legally supposed to do) you probably would not have done so, but by offering you the chance to appeal, they have neatly tricked you into telling them anyway.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is why I am worried that slinky_crazy's appeal letter may have already put her beyond the point at which simply ignoring them will work. If she so much as implied that she was the driver – even if she didn't state it expressly – then the PPC will have a watertight case under contract law to force her to pay. All she will achieve by ignoring their letters is to allow them to add more and more charges – solicitor's costs, court costs, bailiffs costs, etc. to her bill.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So, with all this in mind, do you agree it might be worth asking slinky_crazy EXACTLY what she DID say in that appeal letter? The worst thing this forum could do is to give her advice which might end up costing her a lot of extra money.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]And if I am completely wrong, I should be very relieved to receive assurances of this from the regular posting crew.[/FONT]

James_N

Methusela wrote: »

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]As I understand it, the way the scam works is that the PPC only have a claim against the driver of the vehicle and not against the owner, registered keeper, hirer or anyone else. The PPC's problem is how to find out who the driver was because, once they know that, they can make a perfectly legitimate claim against him or her, which could eventually become enforceable by a court, if not paid.[/FONT]

But it's only ever a CLAIM - for damages. Not a fine. Probably not a reasonable claim. Probably not a claim a court would uphold. Even if there is contract proved.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Secondly – and this is the dangerous part – the PPC dangle a carrot of hope, by offering the chance to appeal against their charge. Many of those faced with a PCN for the first time might be tempted to try the appeal route. They might hope that those very reasonable parking people could be swayed by the sad story of how the charge was wrong because “it was dark.......they didn't see the signs....they thought a disabled badge exempted them...the attendant said it would be ok....etc, etc”.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]This is why I am worried that slinky_crazy's appeal letter may have already put her beyond the point at which simply ignoring them will work. If she so much as implied that she was the driver – even if she didn't state it expressly – then the PPC will have a watertight case under contract law to force her to pay. All she will achieve by ignoring their letters is to allow them to add more and more charges – solicitor's costs, court costs, bailiffs costs, etc. to her bill.[/FONT]

Any CLAIM for damages due to an IMPLIED contract is not a "watertight case". far from it. The additional charges - see above. Charges would need to be proportional and reasonable. Actions by the company would need to be reasonable too. At least ONE case has been thrown out because the company "set out to intimidate".

AnnaDalz

I received a parking fine last week from Euro Car Parks - £50, I was 20 mins late. In fairness I am heavily pregnant and had an issue that made me late back to my car, so was going to try and appeal.
I was just about to pay the fine, when I noticed they have the incorrect vehicle registration - what do I do now?

trisontana

AnnaDalz wrote: »

I received a parking fine last week from Euro Car Parks - £50, I was 20 mins late. In fairness I am heavily pregnant and had an issue that made me late back to my car, so was going to try and appeal.
I was just about to pay the fine, when I noticed they have the incorrect vehicle registration - what do I do now?

For a start it's not a fine. It's an unenforceable invoice. Just ignore and don't contact them. Eventually they will leave you alone although you might get a few letters from "debt recovery companies" and "Solicitors".

peter_the_piper

However if they have the incorrect reg number there a better than even chance you won't here anything from them. You've got more important things to think about so don't even give them another thought.