Private Parking Tickets discussion

peter_the_piper

Do not worry, the chance of them taking anyone to any type of court is remote in the extreme. You may well have entered into a contract to park but they cannot make anyone pay a penalty for exceeding the terms as that is unlawful. The most they would get is the cost of the lost revenue which in a free car park is what??? The only chance of them doing anything is if you regularly(I'm talking dozens) park without paying or shopping as that's taking the p***
Do not bother to phone them or contact them in any way, leave them guessing its more fun.
As for the clip, the lawyer was conveying what you should do in every instance, not just parking, leaving and coming back again.

Coupon-mad

spezi wrote: »

thanks for the link Driver8 .. I did watch the programme but found it confusing because I didn't park-leave and then return as the drivers they were talking about appeared to have done. Anyway .. what about being in "breach of some contractual term" .. am I not entering into a contract by parking on this private land ? .. and in breach because I stayed longer than they said I was allowed to?

I was also interested to read ClaphamMan's post .. and another which said he had phoned the company and they said they had never actually taken anyone to court .. do you think they may start after all this publicity ?? I may be the unlucky one ?? .. what do you reckon !?

In the Watchdog clip, it's what the lawyer did and said that you need to listen to again. Go on, listen to that bit again and you'll understand his clear message.

He said - off the top of my head - that only the Council or the Police can fine people and that if his Mum got a private parking ticket this is what he would do with it (cue him making a nice paper aeroplane). He also said he was unaware of any cases where a PPC had taken someone to Court (we have seen it happen - very rarely - but the PPC lose in almost every case. OPC and Excel have lost cases this year).

There was NO discussion at that point about any difference if you had or hadn't supposedly committed some trumped up contravention. Even if it was a 2hr free car park and you'd stayed for 2 days we would be telling you to IGNORE all the letters.

I don't know of any company that uses ANPR that has dared to try Court. It's just not part of their business model. They just use threatograms to scare people. You have looked at the first thread on the board to see the sort of letters you will receive, have you? It helps to know what's coming so you can play snap as each matching threatogram arrives. What fun!

Stop worrying and laugh at their sorry attempts to extort money from you.

beer-drinker

yesterday I parked for three hours,came back to the car,I had a penaltynotice stuck to my window. the meter charges were 60 pence per hour or £3 all day. I had only £2 . I paid the £2 into the machine ,I came back to my car 15 minutes late . a private security firm armtrack had a bill for £60 pounds,if paid within 7 days,going up to £80, after that that date,the 20 pence extra,would of covered that excess time,have I any chance of an appeal or do I ignore,any help would be great, regards,james

Coupon-mad

beer-drinker wrote: »

yesterday I parked for three hours,came back to the car,I had a penaltynotice stuck to my window. the meter charges were 60 pence per hour or £3 all day. I had only £2 . I paid the £2 into the machine ,I came back to my car 15 minutes late . a private security firm armtrack had a bill for £60 pounds,if paid within 7 days,going up to £80, after that that date,the 20 pence extra,would of covered that excess time,have I any chance of an appeal or do I ignore,any help would be great, regards,james

Was it a penalty notice or a parking charge notice? I am assuming that Armtrack were not issuing tickets on behalf of a Council or under Railway Byelaws?

If it's just a bog-standard private ticket (parking charge notice) then the advice to ignore all letters applies. Nothing will happen, no effect on your credit rating.

See my reply above to spezi, you need to look at the same info I have directed him to.

Watch the Watchdog clip linked earlier in this thread, learn that you can safely ignore and make paper aeroplanes from PPC letters. Then read the first thread on this board, by Crabman, to see examples of the sort of debt collector threatograms the registered keeper will receive. Nothing to worry about as long as you are ready for the letters and don't believe their threats. In fact, laugh at their attempts to extort money from you!

It's all a scam, just like phishing emails, and you wouldn't give deleting them a second thought would you?

beer-drinker

hi ,thanks for reply, the ticket from armtrac, was a{ parking place standard charge ticket} as far as I,m aware the property is owned by the fowey harbour commisioners, it states that on my ticket, I was 15 minutes over my time,it was a mistake,as I met someone in the centre of fowey,did,nt realise it would take so long to return to car. the thing I cant get me head around is ,the price,the next price£ 80 after 7 days unpaid,and the fact i overpaid by 20 pence anyway, thankyou !!

Oopsadaisy

beer-drinker wrote: »

yesterday I parked for three hours,came back to the car,I had a penaltynotice stuck to my window. the meter charges were 60 pence per hour or £3 all day. I had only £2 . I paid the £2 into the machine ,I came back to my car 15 minutes late . a private security firm armtrack had a bill for £60 pounds,if paid within 7 days,going up to £80, after that that date,the 20 pence extra,would of covered that excess time,have I any chance of an appeal or do I ignore,any help would be great, regards,james

If it was a private parking 'invoice' then you are safe to ignore [see several thousand posts on here on this very topic]; the location, time, notice, day, car, company all have no bearing whatsoever on the situation - ignore.

Some would say that you're mad to even be paying the £2 or £3 [as there is nothing they could do about it [unless they clamp]].

peter_the_piper

Certainly most on here would always say pay the £3.00 as its payment for a service and the landowner is entitled to expect a driver to pay a reasonable fee for parking. Its the OTT "Penalties" that cause most here to say ignore.

PvtPyle

New poster here. I successfully challenged a Private Parking Company (PPC) in September 2009. I have detailed my research and experiences below in case it helps another member here in a similar situation.

As I mentioned, my problem started in Sept 2009 when I parked in a Morrissons car park in Reigate town centre for approx. 4 hours on a Sundayafternoon. When I arrived, it was shortly after 3pm. The signs state that there is a 2 hour max. stay in force. I misread the sign and thought this rule ceases at 3 pm; it doesn't, it stops at 4pm.

A few days later, none the wiser as to my error, I received a Parking Charge Notice from a company called ParkingEye. They seemed to think I owed them £70 for parking for longer than the time permitted. They have some kind of photographic evidence captured on CCTV, and they obtained my details from the DVLA. The PCN looked very official, with black and white chequered edging similar to what you might get on a speeding ticket or other formal notice from the Police.

Initially, I was furious. Then I got online and did some research. I encourage you all to do the same should you ever receive any kind of parking infringement notice from ANYONE who is not either the Police, or the County Council or Borough Council for your area.

PPCs and the law:

Tickets from Traffic Wardens working for the police or local authorities or tickets issued by police officers are backed by criminal law. There are provisions for them in the Road Traffic Act 1991 and these provisions allow sanctions that the issuing authority can take.

Tickets issued by PPCs (Private Parking Companies) are NOT backed by any such aspect of criminal law. Private parking firms operate under contract law (or tort). To say that their legal position is spurious is a gross overstatement. The activity of these companies is bordering on illegal. Often, they are quite absolutely illegal.

Essentially when a driver of a vehicle drives into a car park and parks his (or her) car he (or she) is implied to accept the offer for parking on the terms of the offeror (the parking company or land owner). A contract is formed and therefore the contract can be broken (or breached).

How to challenge a PPC:

The first approach, advocated by many experienced members of the Consumer Action Group forum, is to DO NOTHING. Do not reply to any of the letters from the PPC, the debt collectors, the solicitors, NOTHING. They assume that because there is no legal grounding, they could never actually take you to court to recover the "fine" and therefore you can simply ignore them.

The second approach, which is advocated in the template letters (linked below) is to deal with the PPC but in a very careful and strategic manner. Full details are available from the link, but effectively it involves denying any knowledge of the incident!

In my case, ParkingEye Ltd have limited access to the DVLA database by way of being a member of the British Parking Association (BPA) thus they identified my car based on the make, model and registration. They then wrote to me and claimed that as the Registered Keeper of the vehicle, I am responsible. The "fine" they have issued is NOT a fine at all, it is an INVOICE. Moreover, the RK of the car is not responsible, it is the driver who has entered into this supposed contract, the terms of which have been breached. I was under no obligation whatsoever to identify who was driving the car at the time.

Hence, I sent the PPC this letter:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Your letter dated ddmmyyyy with reference [#######]

I acknowledge receipt of your captioned letter. It seems that you have obtained my details from the DVLA and I confirm I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. You need to take this matter up with the driver concerned.

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed, or any amount at all, is due to you from me.

Regards
PvtPyle

ParkingEye responded and as I had anticipated, they falesly claimed that unless I disclose the identity of the driver, that as the RK I would be eligible for the "fine". They also included verbiage suggesting that failure to pay the fine could result in further penalty costs and/or the engagement of a debt collection agency.

At this point, my advice to anyone dealing with a PPC is to STOP REPLYING to their letters. Keep them all filed, it is good practice. However, you have done NOTHING WRONG and you are under NO OBLIGATION legally or otherwise to co-operate with these companies. This is what I did - I'll admit I was quite nervous at first. I am sure other members might be too. What if they me to court, what if I get a CCJ, what if this affects my credit rating...?

The truth is that none of these things will happen - at least not if you are being harrassed by ParkingEye. What will happen is that they will send you a couple more menacing letters. Then, they will inform you that they are handing the case over to a debt collection agency for the recovery of outstanding monies owed to them. The debt collectors will write you a letter - by now the sum outstanding is probably around the £150 mark. The registered address of the debt collector, which I checked on the Companies House website, is the same as that of Parking Eye. Very odd that...

Something else to note is the format of the PCN letter that the PPC send you. Examine Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 and you'll discover that the characteristics which give these "fines" (invoices) their official bearing and the suggestion made by the PPC that their removal is an offence are themselves illegal.

Section 40 of the act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

Eventually, in the vast majority of cases, the PPCs will simply stop writing to you. In my case, I received my last letter in early Feb 2010. Since then, I haven't received anything. There is nothing on my credit record. Actually I have borrowed since then without any problems

trisontana

I should amend "PrivateEye" to "ParkingEye", otherwise Ian Hislop might be featuring you in his magazine!

PvtPyle

Good point. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing though.. Ian Hislop being the charming gent he is! Thanks for the spot