MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Insult by paying or let them struggle?

Furey

i dont know much about africa but if this was in the middle east and you didnt accept the gift you might as well punch his wife in the face! its very serious. in afghan, if you even acknowledge the prescence of a mans wife or daughters you are behaving in a totaly out of order manner. their country, their rules!

lindilou39

Personally I would never offend, but I might have a quiet word with the waiter serving and say can you calculate the bill so that Mr atchimoto only pays 50% and I will pay the other 50%.

dbfisokay

What is clear here is that paying for the meal would violate the local hospitality norms and my host’s personal honour, which are morally relevant harms. Whilst harm may be caused to him by the financial strain; that harm is not one which I am invited to alleviate. Remember I have essentially performed a service, possibly of great significance, and my host is simply redressing that service in accordance with established practices. In effect the books have been balanced for him. If I pay for the meal, I perform two services which my host would be duty bound to redress. This actually adds harm, which is morally wrong. Therefore I would not pay for the meal.

notamongoose

The great thing about nations that haven't been fully 'developed' yet is that there is still a hell of a lot of importance put upon social obligation and honour. To be 'indebted' to someone in this country is generally thought of as a monetary thing. But to be indebted to someone for their hospitality is a lot more intangible, and requires a lot more respect. It would be a terrible insult to try and pay your way out of this debt of hospitality, because it is the act of taking you there, and showing you this restaurant, in showing off the food it serves that are the important factors in what this man has done for you. To try and pay for it is tantamount to telling the guy that you could have come here of your own accord, and what he's done for you really isn't very much. You would be negating the worth of everything he has done for you, avoiding the situation of being indebted to him. This is really rude!

If you look at the debt in exactly the same way as if you went to stay at a friends house for a couple of days, and he cooked you some nice meals and gave you a bed. Maybe he buys some really good food and good wine, splashes out on entertaining you. You could offer to pay for half, and I know a lot of people would, and a lot of people would accept this. I would have difficulty accepting this though - surely it is better just to acknowledge that you are indebted for their hospitality, and to vow to return it at a later date in whatever way you can?

Take away the fact that you can actually see the financial impact it is having on him, and you have a situation no different to if he was entertaining you at his home.

Acknowledge that you are indebted for his kind hospitality, and vow to repay it in kind at the first available opportunity. Then go out of your way to create this opportunity.

First post :T

altowillie31

This happened to myself in China. My colleague's Father was a Don atone of the Universities and as such not paid a great deal.
He invited me to dinner and paid. I didn't offer to pay but at a second invitation this time to his apartment, I took a bottle of imported Whiskey, which he really enjoyed.
He politely said that it was too expensive etc, for me it wasn't of course but accepted.
He was and still is a gentleman and one of the most pleasant people I have ever met and of course didn't want to insult him or make him or myself feel uncomfortable but the present worked instead of paying for the original dinner.

jud!th

You must let him pay, but at some point it would be polite to reciprocate his generosity.

Personally I would say that they are welcome to my home if they are ever in the UK, or send their children a proportionate financial gift towards the cost of their education. But if you wouldn't be comfortable with one of those then any gift that would be useful to them but not embarrass them would be good.

Korean friends of ours brought a le creuset wok for me as a birthday present when we went out for a curry for my birthday, and we hadn't known them more than a few weeks. We then met up with them regularly for studies and English practice - if they valued our friendship enough to give such a generous gift then we wanted to also value their friendship. We haven't seen them since they went back to Korea, but we still use the wok

Make cross-cultural friendships, both sides benefit from learning about the other culture.

Upright_Tone

My goodness, most folk who have posted seem to be trying to outdo each other by showing just how sanctimonious they are. Frankly, what is wrong with accepting an invitation to a meal having rendered someone a useful service? Why on earth should you feel obliged to lavish them with gifts (or, heaven help us, pay for their children's education as someone suggested)?

The nub of this dilemma, to me, is the fact that you have already eaten. It is difficult in that situation to get away with eating only very little because that in itself can be seen as a rejection of the hospitality offered. I think you pretty well have to accept that you are going to leave the restaurant feeling extremely uncomfortable and take some indigestion tablets.

venter

I would let him pay to keep his dignity. As is custom whith our families though when you visit somebody you try to repay their hospitally at the end with a gift. I will therefore give a cash gift or some household item wich might be needed.

pineapple

I have lived in a 3rd world country. Frankly anyone genuinely poor could not contemplate paying even for a downmarket restaurant. But lets say they can just about, but only just about, afford it. A snub to their pride might be worse than a dent in the pocket. I would protest but gracefully accept, if pushed. If it was culturally acceptable, I would ask to pay for any drink or taxi fares. Failing that, as others have pointed out, there are ways to repay people.

MrsE_2

I would insist on paying BUT ask them if they would treat me to a meal in their home later in my holiday.