Pay Pal Protection Scam?

Kevin_T

I have been in dispute since August with a seller who thought that packing a 25kg keyboard in one layer of cardboard was enough protection. Needless to say the item arrived in pieces. Pay pal said that I had to send it back at my expense (£42). Pay pal did not acknowledge my emails or protestations which were quite civil and clear. It has gone on for so long that I can not even give this seller negative feedback, for all I know he is selling the keyboard again to another mug. I have photographs of the keyboard as it arrived, Pay Pal did not want to know.
How can they claim that the item had £150 payment protection when it clearly does not?
Surely this is illegal?
I have spoken to many people in a similar position but nothing seems to happen. How can consumers stop this?
I am just under £200 out of pocket with nothing to show for it.
Is it not about time someone like Simon took up the challenge and confront the giants who seem to be able to do as they like?

soolin

Why didn't you just send it back with a courier, who would have been about £10 back in August and then get your refund from paypal? I know it is too lat enow but there is a courier thread on the ebay board where latest offers are listed and although th eprices have gone up significantly in the past week, previously they were mega cheap and tracked too. I sent an item heavier than yours in early September for £6.99.

Kevin_T

Hi soolin. I have never had to send anything large by courier before so I used the one that he used to send the item to me. (Although it cost me £10 more?) I will certainly look for that in the future!
Pay pal told me to send it back which I did, he sent it back to me with his address crossed out.
Having done everything Paypal asked me to do they said that they sided with him?!?!
What have I done wrong?
I paid immediately.
It arrived completely in pieces (packed in one layer of cardboard).
He said he would try to get compensation from the courier.
I said I would wait but as he did not communicate further and with the claim date approaching I filed a complaint.
Paypal said they would look at my claim and told me to return the item which I did.
Paypal closed the case.
I protested and said I had done everything they asked.
They reopened the case and then closed it again in his favour without informing me (again).
Now forgive me for being presumtious, but a £150 guarantee does appear to me to be . . . . . A guarantee of £150.
The item was listed as 'in almost new condition', arriving in pieces this clearly was 'not as listed'.
Which bit of their guarantee do they not understand (or wish to pay out on).
I would not have purchased the item had it not been covered by their 'protection'.
I call this a scam
or a fraudulent way of fooling people into thinking they have some sort of protection.
or a con
or misrepresentation of a service

wary

Maybe action in a small claims court, either against Paypal or the seller, is a possibility? Get yourself some decent legal advice ... and good luck!

billybobt_2

Paypal say they offer protection but then they find whatever excuse to pull out.
I made a purchase and the item that turned up was not only broken but not as described. I entered into dispute. Paypal said send the item back. Seller did not pay up. I told Paypal I wanted my money back under their guranatee. They tried to wash their hands.
Trading standards say Paypal come under the FSA to whom you need to make a complaint. Paypal is not registered in the UK but Belgium. But after dozens of emails to paypal and them dismissing my claims I demanded all information regarding my case under the data protection act so that I could then take legal action. Guess what they gave me the money back but said they did not acknowledge liability.
In the US there is a class action taking place against Paypal so be warned.

Kevin_T

If paypal held the money untill the item arrived they would have no trouble getting the money back.
It is not rocket science, I still believe that the 'protection' is nothing more than a sales pitch.

soolin

Look at this from another point of view for a moment. You sell something on ebay and buyer then emails to say item is damagerd and wants a refund..but will not send item back. How many sellers do you think would be posting on here in that case saying paypal are a rip off because buyers can get a refund and keep the item?

Or, you buy a TV from Curry's and phone them to say the TV was damaged when you got it home and opened the box..but again you just want your money back but don't want to have to take the TV back.

markelock

but paypal are offering the protection. they are not holding the sellers money, they are offering something completely separate.

therefore if the seller does receive it back, they should pay out (and where that money comes from is not the issue of the purchaser)

paypal aren't FSA registered for a reason. I wouldn't use them unless I had to, even then I'd pay using a credit card (even though they suggest using a debit card)

Write the list of events, in order. e-mail them, give them 7 days to reply. don't let it go, they rely on people giving up.

Kevin_T

I have done just that, several times!

I will not give up but it gets frustrating and time consuming.

Paypal have sent me an email (after another complaint from me) saying that the decision went in my favour, however, in the 'dispute resolution' part of their website it says the exact opposite!

As it is impossible to resolve the issue from my end, how am I supposed to react?

I have asked for clarification of their position and for their intended actions but I just can't see them doing anything at all.

markelock

I would now send a new e-mail, giving them 7 days to pay the funds into your account, and send the mail they have sent you admitting you this have "won" this case.

If they are unable to comply with this, I suggest you mention that you will take the complaint to the small claims court, where, you will be confident that with this e-mail, and the additional evidence (proof of postage, paypal protection clauses), you will win. Also, you'll have to add some fees in when taking them to court, so your costs plus your time.

I hate them.

soolin

I would be interested in this going to a small claims as it would benefit sellers to see how the case proceeds. If I send something out and a buyer claims it was broken and demands their money back how on earth do I protect myself against dodgy buyers who want both their goods and their money back?

If a buyer could claim a refund without any need to have the goods returned I can see suppliers shutting down in droves..including all the internet sites that rely on credit card payments. Buy a TV, claim it was broken and get your money back , absolutely fine sir here's your cash..bought a dress for a prom and now regret paying £300 for it?, no problem claim the zip went and get your money back.

The OP won the case but needed to return the item to get a full refund, therefore the dispute console is correct, the case was won but no payment was made as OP did not comply with the terms of the protection and return the item to the seller.