The Myth of record debt!

StevieJ

!!!!!!? wrote: »

Yeah, we're entering a phase now where things should firm up on that front. I moved permie from contracting a while back in anticipation of a downturn but you never know what sort of curveball life can throw.

Don't contractors have a contract (say two years) making the permie notice period almost anaemic. I have never done it but I have heard some people say that the contractors are safer than the permanent?

chucky

StevieJ wrote: »

Don't contractors have a contract (say two years) making the permie notice period almost anaemic. I have never done it but I have heard some people say that the contractors are safer than the permanent?

i have the same notice period as a contractor as i would do as a permie.
i earn more than double as a contractor than as a permie.
i have never been out of contract for over 6 years.

permies are larger and longer fixed costs to a firm than a contractor who may be on a 6 or 12 month contract.

being permie does not appeal in any way.

chucky

post 71 sums it up beautifully

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=15996471&postcount=71

purch

Not really if it effects relative exchange rates.

Unfortunately the markets aren't perfect, in fact far from it and the timescales required for currencies to reach their "proper" levels is immense.

It was common knowledge that Germany had unfunded Pension obligations far in excess of any other European nation in the early 1990's, yet that didn't stop the DEM being the bastion of strength and stability throughout that period and in the run up to the Euro, and since the inception of synthetic money there seems little regard for the fact that most of the nations participating in the experiment have huge deficits and huge unfunded obligations.

WTF?_2

StevieJ wrote: »

Not really if it effects relative exchange rates.

Relative exchange rates are a crapshoot thanks to the Dollar, Euro and Pound all being based on dodgy economies. But it would seem right now that the pound is set to end up ultimately with the worst of it thanks to the levels of debt dependency in the UK.

The USA plays by its own rules thanks to petrodollar and reserve currency status and if the Euro can hold together it has the advantage of a large block of GDP power, plus its diversity although currently proving a liability could be turned into an asset.

WTF?_2

StevieJ wrote: »

Don't contractors have a contract (say two years) making the permie notice period almost anaemic. I have never done it but I have heard some people say that the contractors are safer than the permanent?

A lot of companies have that 2-year rule and to be honest, contractors should really consider either becoming permie or leaving after 2-3 years anyway for the sake of their own skillset and profile.


IMO in a thriving economy you are miles better off being a contractor. In a recession the balance shifts more towards permie.

As I hope to be buying a house with money I've more or less already got (rather than needing to make in the future ) I'd prefer to to be in the situation of having a more stable job rather than financially better off and finding that I had to take an expensive immobile, relatively illiquid asset into account when looking for another job which could be somewhere remote from the house.

PS. Read your question wrong - Contractors have a fixed period of contract but typically can be dismissed at one month's notice. The contract just refers to the fixed period of employment offered at the given rate, you can still lose your job at short notice so you are no safer.

The reason I picked up on the 2-years thing is that it's common advice to not stay in a contract for longer than 2-3 years and many businesses will insist on not keeping longer term contractors on contract. After that it's better for you and the business if you either become permanent or move on somewhere else.

Cannon_Fodder

chucky wrote: »

i have the same notice period as a contractor as i would do as a permie.
i earn more than double as a contractor than as a permie.
i have never been out of contract for over 6 years.

permies are larger and longer fixed costs to a firm than a contractor who may be on a 6 or 12 month contract.

being permie does not appeal in any way.

Something doesn't quite add up. I know permies cost in NI, pensions, sickness, holidays etc. But is it really more than double??

Not to get at you...just have always questioned this contract/permie thing...

One year, 4 contractors spent nearly our entire budget in 6 months, so had to be let go, and we struggled to provide service to our customers very cheaply for the rest of the year.

Now, big companies are outsourcing staff to reduced headcount to look good for their bottom line, conveniently forgetting that a hidden budget somewhere is going to be taking a hammering...

WTF?_2

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

Something doesn't quite add up. I know permies cost in NI, pensions, sickness, holidays etc. But is it really more than double??

Not to get at you...just have always questioned this contract/permie thing...

One year, 4 contractors spent nearly our entire budget in 6 months, so had to be let go, and we struggled to provide service to our customers very cheaply for the rest of the year.

Now, big companies are outsourcing staff to reduced headcount to look good for their bottom line, conveniently forgetting that a hidden budget somewhere is going to be taking a hammering...

You can easily earn double as a contractor. In fact, it's hardly worth your time if you don't.

However, it doesn't cost the employer double to employ you once you take into account the overheads that permie staff incur.

IveSeenTheLight

!!!!!!? wrote: »

You either have a bullish view on the housing market or you have a bearish one - Not too many people around with a 'neutral' opinion on where house prices will go as far as I can see. So it's quite appropriate to refer to posters as being bulls or bears.

I've said UK average house prices are above the long term rend and need o correct to this.
I've also said that some areas will be affected more than others.
I do believe in the long term that house will recover and surpass the 2007 peak.

Which category does that put me in then !!!!!!?
A bull that thinks house prices need to correct
or
A bear that thinks house prices will surpass the 2007 peak.

Getting back to the rational question.

!!!!!!? wrote:

I think we've hit on the crux of the resident 'bulls' - they just can't make rational, detached judgements

Do you think it is a rational statement to label people bulls AND state that they cannot make rational, detached judgements?

chucky

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

Something doesn't quite add up. I know permies cost in NI, pensions, sickness, holidays etc. But is it really more than double??

Not to get at you...just have always questioned this contract/permie thing...

One year, 4 contractors spent nearly our entire budget in 6 months, so had to be let go, and we struggled to provide service to our customers very cheaply for the rest of the year.

Now, big companies are outsourcing staff to reduced headcount to look good for their bottom line, conveniently forgetting that a hidden budget somewhere is going to be taking a hammering...

it's always down to personal choice and circumstances.

i've worked it out for various different reasons that for every year i work i take off an extra 1 and half years of my working life due to more money that I earn and do not spend as i am earning more.

contractors also have the incentives like health care, non-contributory pensions, NI and all of the other subsidies that they may get. an irrelevant addition to this as that contractors do not count as headcount and just an expense which is obviously a cost that is 'hidden' in the tougher times.

double may be a bit toppy but it's not far from that because permies are longer term costs rather tha short term.