The Myth of record debt!

chucky

tomstickland wrote: »

Looks like the "unpatriotic" or "negative" claims are starting up. That's a way of trying to suppress the debate.

The tax payers alliance website has some good documents on it.

yes that it's Tommy - it's all falling into line just as predicted by Nostradamus :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Dithering_Dad

tomstickland wrote: »

Looks like the "unpatriotic" or "negative" claims are starting up. That's a way of trying to suppress the debate.

The tax payers alliance website has some good documents on it.

Someone expressing a different viewpoint from yourself isn't 'suppressing the debate', it's adding to it.

Unless of course you want to return to the old days on this board where one person expressed a view and everyone clicked the thanks button and posted congratulatory remarks on how insightful they were?

A debate is where people with opposing views have a discussion and sometimes they find common ground and sometimes they don't, but the benefit to people who listen to it (or read it) is that they become more informed.

SingleSue

I have no idea how busy/quiet our local town centre is because I have stopped shopping in it (or anywhere else for that matter!) apart from very rare excursions, I wonder if others have been doing the same as me :rolleyes:

Generali

That's a cracking article and shows very clearly the trouble with talking about Government debt.

As I see it we have 2 big problems:

1. The amount we're looking to borrow this year.
2. The unfunded liaibilities off the Government's books.

That other countries have a worse problem with debt is a bit like saying well I've had a heart attack but the bloke in the next bed has got gout too!

stonethrower

Jonbvn wrote: »

The other thing to consider, now that most of the world is in recession is welfare benefits. The amount of benefits paid to unemployed people in France & Italy etc. is huge by comparison to the UK. When I worked in Italy, I recall that unemployment benefits were two thirds of salary:eek:

Don't know about France and Italy but in Ireland a single person gets 210 Euro a week (could be more now as they had a budget recently) . Not sure about housing benefit. Also they get an extra weeks bonus at Christmas.

kennyboy66_2

dopester wrote: »

We need genuine demand for UK services, or to sell some stuff we make in the UK, from UK companies, to really get the maximum benefit from anything.
This story highlights for me, it is only our weak currency which makes retail stuff we source from foreigners ourselves, attractively priced to other foreigners! Crazy.

Presumably they have to get here to buy the stuff, get taxis or hire cars while they are here, probably stay in a hotel & eat & drink.

Meanwhile the store sells expensive products with massive retail mark ups. This helps pay the staffs wages, store rents and generates VAT receipts for the Government.

I doubt very much if this will save the Great British High Street however the UK exports about £10bn a year to Italy.

The last thing we need is protectionism

BACKFRMTHEEDGE

setmefree2 wrote: »

The posters on this board have no debt and now they have falling house prices (which is what they wanted), yet they are overwhelmingly negative. I don't get it?

Some armchair psychology;).

Firstly, there is a state in psychology called Cognitive Dissonance. The most obvious example of CD is wanting to smoke whilst knowing it's bad for you. HP crashers must suffer from CD. On the one hand they want HPs to crash and on the other they know they if HPs crash they might lose their jobs - since HPs will be crashing because things have gone wrong in the economy. Not a good place to be.

Secondly, HP Crashers need to be constantly looking for bad news, the worse the better. The worse the news, the more house prices will fall. Also not a very happy place to be.

Thirdly, HP crashers are wishing bad things on others. Most people won't feel comfortable with this, so they will try to blame those they are wishing bad things on. Hence the high levels of hostility to people with mortgages and debt. "They brought it on themselves" and "they deserve it" makes HP crashers feel better about themselves.

Thus, endeth the lesson.;)

Dithering_Dad

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

Some armchair psychology;).

Firstly, there is a state in psychology called Cognitive Dissonance. The most obvious example of CD is wanting to smoke whilst knowing it's bad for you. HP crashers must suffer from CD. On the one hand they want HPs to crash and on the other they know they if HPs crash they might lose their jobs - since HPs will be crashing because things have gone wrong in the economy. Not a good place to be.

Secondly, HP Crashers need to be constantly looking for bad news, the worse the better. The worse the news, the more house prices will fall. Also not a very happy place to be.

Thirdly, HP crashers are wishing bad things on others. Most people won't feel comfortable with this, so they will try to blame those they are wishing bad things on. Hence the high levels of hostility to people with mortgages and debt. "They brought it on themselves" and "they deserve it" makes HP crashers feel better about themselves.

Thus, endeth the lesson.;)

Nailed. Good post BFTE.

No doubt the 'king of the negatives' !!!!!!? will be along shortly trying to justify himself and start an argument...

WTF?_2

setmefree2 wrote: »

LOL:rotfl: I'm not trying to suppress any debate. I'm just trying to give a different perspective. You are free to express your view. However, I find your view pessimistic and negative. I post mostly on the MFW board - we are a cheerful, positive, supportive bunch. I believe that the DFW board is supportive too. The posters on this board have no debt and now they have falling house prices (which is what they wanted), yet they are overwhelmingly negative. I don't get it?

Being bearish on the economic prospects does not equal a person being 'negative'.

Please learn to separate someone making a rational judgement on a given topic - i.e. the state of the economy - from a general personal attitude of negativity.

WTF?_2

BACKFRMTHEEDGE wrote: »

Some armchair psychology;).

Firstly, there is a state in psychology called Cognitive Dissonance. The most obvious example of CD is wanting to smoke whilst knowing it's bad for you. HP crashers must suffer from CD. On the one hand they want HPs to crash and on the other they know they if HPs crash they might lose their jobs - since HPs will be crashing because things have gone wrong in the economy. Not a good place to be.

Secondly, HP Crashers need to be constantly looking for bad news, the worse the better. The worse the news, the more house prices will fall. Also not a very happy place to be.

Thirdly, HP crashers are wishing bad things on others. Most people won't feel comfortable with this, so they will try to blame those they are wishing bad things on. Hence the high levels of hostility to people with mortgages and debt. "They brought it on themselves" and "they deserve it" makes HP crashers feel better about themselves.

Thus, endeth the lesson.;)

Try being rational instead of personal.

I think we've hit on the crux of the resident 'bulls' - they just can't make rational, detached judgements.

No wonder they are always trying to drag discussions into the realms of personal sniping.