NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

ballyblack

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/cleric_hits_out_at_banks_cash_moves_1_3008609

Toastandbutter

Presbyterian minister slams banks over 'approaches for PMS money'

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/cleric_hits_out_at_banks_cash_moves_1_3008609

anotherDonald

Toastandbutter wrote: »

Presbyterian minister slams banks over 'approaches for PMS money'

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/local/cleric_hits_out_at_banks_cash_moves_1_3008609

And does Rev Bannerman recall the summer of 2008 when there was a pulpit call urging Presbyterians to put their money in the PMS?

Or does he have a selective memory like the rest of the clergy?


:mad:

Lakeland

another Donald. I was at worship in my own congregation every Sunday during 2008, at no time in announcement sheet, in pulpit announcements, on notice boards or in congregational Newsletter was there a mention of PMS. In fact PMS was never mentioned in our congregational literature until crisis. The pulpit call you refer to, was this church wide and was it sanctioned from Church House? Perhaps you could define "pulpit call".

anotherDonald

Lakeland wrote: »

another Donald. I was at worship in my own congregation every Sunday during 2008, at no time in announcement sheet, in pulpit announcements, on notice boards or in congregational Newsletter was there a mention of PMS. In fact PMS was never mentioned in our congregational literature until crisis. The pulpit call you refer to, was this church wide and was it sanctioned from Church House? Perhaps you could define "pulpit call".

It was an announcement from the pulpit, along the lines of "in view of the current financial uncertainty, (Northern Rock/Lehman Bros was about this time) you may like to consider putting savings into the Presbyterian Mutual Society. the implication being that our savings would be safe there from the uncertainty of the time.
We also had posters in the vestibule, and an advert in the church newsletter.
Also every edition of the Herald had a full page ad for PMS on the back page.
Like some announcements maybe it was at the discretion of the individual minister, I assume it was a suggestion from Church House as several people in other congregations have told me they remember similar announcements in their church at the time.

I use the expression "pulpit call" as a generic description of an announcement made denomination wide from the pulpit for fund raising or some such purposes - and as I say others remember the same announcement at the time.
Maybe not many people are reading this forum now, but perhaps others would like to add their recollections of the time?

expat68

Lakeland wrote: »

another Donald. I was at worship in my own congregation every Sunday during 2008, at no time in announcement sheet, in pulpit announcements, on notice boards or in congregational Newsletter was there a mention of PMS. In fact PMS was never mentioned in our congregational literature until crisis. The pulpit call you refer to, was this church wide and was it sanctioned from Church House? Perhaps you could define "pulpit call".

"That the General Assembly congratulate the Directors of the
Presbyterian Mutual Society on its continuing success and encourage

Congregations and individuals to avail themselves of its services."

General Assembly minutes from June 2008 - 4 months later PCI was disowning the PMS.

anotherDonald

expat68 wrote: »

"That the General Assembly congratulate the Directors of the
Presbyterian Mutual Society on its continuing success and encourage

Congregations and individuals to avail themselves of its services."

General Assembly minutes from June 2008 - 4 months later PCI was disowning the PM S.

I forgot to add, there was a stack of those little PMS promotional leaflets in the vestibule as well. The ones which said
" The Directors will under no circumstances speculate with the funds entrusted to their care"
Remember that famous quote?

I still have my leaflet, I think I'll frame it!

:rotfl:

Lakeland

Expat68 anotherDonald. Thanks for reply. Apart from obvious adds in Presbyterian Herald in our congregation there was no such annoucements or encouragements from our pulpit. On investigation no such directive was issued from Church House. Lehmans went "Bust" on 10th October 2008, PMS introduced 21 day rule for withdrawals on 25th October and there after sought administration(Arthur Boyd's report). That would leave one Sunday where announcements could have been made. I therefore do not believe there was a huge influx of deposits in the last ten working days of PMS, but I do not have figures to prove this, but we do know there was a run after Lehmans and Gordon Brown's announcement of guarantee of £50K on 3rd October 2008.
On a completely different matter, should we on this forum now encourage administrator as he will seek to deal with "challenging accounts".

ballyblack

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14737508

anotherDonald

Lakeland wrote: »

Expat68 anotherDonald. Thanks for reply. Apart from obvious adds in Presbyterian Herald in our congregation there was no such annoucements or encouragements from our pulpit. On investigation no such directive was issued from Church House. Lehmans went "Bust" on 10th October 2008, PMS introduced 21 day rule for withdrawals on 25th October and there after sought administration(Arthur Boyd's report). That would leave one Sunday where announcements could have been made. I therefore do not believe there was a huge influx of deposits in the last ten working days of PMS, but I do not have figures to prove this, but we do know there was a run after Lehmans and Gordon Brown's announcement of guarantee of £50K on 3rd October 2008.
On a completely different matter, should we on this forum now encourage administrator as he will seek to deal with "challenging accounts".

Lakeland
I personally paid in a substantial amount of money in early October, I know of someone else who paid in a VERY substantial amount after me. But PMS was obviously operating on a Ponzi scheme at that point. Money was bouncing out again as soon as it was paid in.


In reply to several enquiries asking the name of the congregation I attended. I left the Presbyterian Church in Ireland when it “left” me. I will not be returning, so the name of the congregation is irrelevant, but thanks for asking.
As previously stated I know of several other congregations where the same announcement was made. It is too much of a coincidence to be uncoordinated.


What we need is a whistleblowing minister to tell us about the announcement and what was happening in Church House in late 2008. But I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen. Ministers will be concerned about their pensions, and who can blame them?
Church House have shown themselves to be a nasty piece of work.


As for your suggestion to encourage Mr Boyd with challenging accounts. I fail to see that anything we can do will encourage defaulters to settle their debts, and I’m sure Mr Boyd’s fee should be sufficient encouragement.