NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

BETRAYED

totallyletdown wrote: »

I happen to think its very serious.
What is the actual state of affairs right now?
Has the administrator put the PMS on hold pending help for the govt?

If someone could answer the first questions, that would be great, the second half was just a rant.

Distressing rumours were circulating yesterday evening. Some savers alledgedly got a reply from OFMADFM to lobbying letters that it would still be a few weeks before the Working Party Report would be available and then it would take some time to work out which way forward would be best. (I am hoping this is copy from earlier letters sent out from that office)
This is being checked out.
If true it beggars belief.

lazer

jon_groovy wrote: »

again, one look at the accounts would have told you things weren't good.

directors, once again, hang your heads in shame or speak out and apologise for the dire states some people are in

QUOTE]

One look at the accounts may have shown that things weren't good - but what exactly could they do about it?

They had bought property and investments - which had fallen in value - therefore selling them wasn't really an option. The best option was exactly what the directors done - nothing

The only option is this situation was to sit and wait and hope things improve and hope that in the meantime they could meet the liabilities.

What caused PMS to go into administration was when people found out this - they (understandably) wanted their money out.
If the savers/investors had carried on as normal - just taking out money when required it is possible that the PMS could have survived

BETRAYED

lazer wrote: »

jon_groovy wrote: »

again, one look at the accounts would have told you things weren't good.

QUOTE]


The only option is this situation was to sit and wait and hope things improve and hope that in the meantime they could meet the liabilities.

What caused PMS to go into administration was when people found out this - they (understandably) wanted their money out.
If the savers/investors had carried on as normal - just taking out money when required it is possible that the PMS could have survived

Belfast NewsLetter Sat 29 Nov 09

Meanwhile, Finance Minister Sammy Wilson has told the News Letter that a treasury minister accepted a Department of Finance proposal in July that the Treasury would provide a guarantee for any gap in finances for the PMS while its property portfolio recovered.

I have begged the Administrator many times to ask the creditors how many ofthem would leave their loan or the greater part of it in PMS........he refuses.
Substantial savers in Ballymena area would do that to enable
the needy to withdraw funds.
Churches have 40m in PMS. They have either got replacement loans from banks or could delay their manse and church building programmes.
PMS could also borrow against the commercial buildings they have.
PCI could also make some small effort.
Government legislation could have brought us under FSA and FSA Compensation scheme.
This was an option. Should have been looked at earlier.
Directors or PMS may have had to take a nominal fine for running an illegal investment bank...which FSA now claims they were.

No chance.......Plan is get shot of a succesful Mutual Society from which the church, clergy and members benefited from for over 60 years.
Boyd's waiting game for a government solution or financial package is longer than he bargained for.

totallyletdown

lazer wrote: »

jon_groovy wrote: »

again, one look at the accounts would have told you things weren't good.

directors, once again, hang your heads in shame or speak out and apologise for the dire states some people are in

QUOTE]

One look at the accounts may have shown that things weren't good - but what exactly could they do about it?

They had bought property and investments - which had fallen in value - therefore selling them wasn't really an option. The best option was exactly what the directors done - nothing

The only option is this situation was to sit and wait and hope things improve and hope that in the meantime they could meet the liabilities.

What caused PMS to go into administration was when people found out this - they (understandably) wanted their money out.
If the savers/investors had carried on as normal - just taking out money when required it is possible that the PMS could have survived

I'm not talking about when the horse had bolted.
I'm talking about how it got into the mess in the first place, they should not have been allowed to invest so much into dangerous places.............that is when the mistake took place and the directors of this society are to blame along with the secretary.

expat68

totallyletdown wrote: »

I happen to think its very serious.
What is the actual state of affairs right now?
Has the administrator put the PMS on hold pending help for the govt? Is there a timeline as to how long he is waiting on this? Its that long since I had any correspondence regarding the PMS I've forgotten what is happening.



If someone could answer the first questions, that would be great, the second half was just a rant.

You should get a report from the adminstrator by mid month - round about the 15th Dec I think. As far as i am aware this is a statutory requirement - he can however choose to say very little beyond the pure facts.

"During the course of the Society’s administration, I am required to prepare a report on the progress of the administration for the first six months of the administration and every subsequent six months period thereafter. The Rules require me to issue each progress report to creditors of the Society, the High Court and the Registrar for Industrial & Provident Societies. "

totallyletdown

BETRAYED wrote: »

Distressing rumours were circulating yesterday evening. Some savers alledgedly got a reply from OFMADFM to lobbying letters that it would still be a few weeks before the Working Party Report would be available and then it would take some time to work out which way forward would be best. (I am hoping this is copy from earlier letters sent out from that office)
This is being checked out.
If true it beggars belief.

Who determines how long the administrator waits to see IF the govt are going to help ?

Does the administrator decide this ?

Has he set a deadline, or is he just going to think some day, right, i've waited long enough, lets proceed with things ?

Is he still getting paid big bucks while we wait ?

Would be delighted if anyone could answer.

expat68

totallyletdown wrote: »

Who determines how long the administrator waits to see IF the govt are going to help ?

Does the administrator decide this ?

Has he set a deadline, or is he just going to think some day, right, i've waited long enough, lets proceed with things ?

Is he still getting paid big bucks while we wait ?

Would be delighted if anyone could answer.

Re 5.2 below There was a resolution in January approved by creditors/ members to extend by 6 months if deemed necessary by the administrator so this would take timings to May 2010. It is then down to the courts.

5.2 The Administration of the Society will come to an end automatically after 12 months unless the members/creditors agree to extend it for a further six months. Thereafter a Court Order is required to extend the period beyond 18 months. I cannot guarantee that the Court will extend the period of the Administration beyond 18 months. For this reason and the consequences of Administration referred to earlier in paragraph 4.14, I am proposing that the members/creditors resolve that the Society enter into an arrangement pursuant to either Part 1 of the Insolvency (Northern Ireland) Order 1989 or Part 26 of the Companies Act 2006.
5.3 It is anticipated that the administration shall come to an end following the earlier of the expiry of the 18 month period referred to above or on application by the Administrator for release, (unless the Administrator requires to extend the period of the administration beyond 18 months).

BETRAYED

Quote:
Originally Posted by BETRAYED
Distressing rumours were circulating yesterday evening. Some savers alledgedly got a reply from OFMADFM to lobbying letters that it would still be a few weeks before the Working Party Report would be available and then it would take some time to work out which way forward would be best. (I am hoping this is copy from earlier letters sent out from that office)
This is being checked out.
If true it beggars belief.


Who determines how long the administrator waits to see IF the govt are going to help ?

Does the administrator decide this ?

Has he set a deadline, or is he just going to think some day, right, i've waited long enough, lets proceed with things ?

Is he still getting paid big bucks while we wait ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by BETRAYED
Distressing rumours were circulating yesterday evening. Some savers alledgedly got a reply from OFMADFM to lobbying letters that it would still be a few weeks before the Working Party Report would be available and then it would take some time to work out which way forward would be best. (I am hoping this is copy from earlier letters sent out from that office)
This is being checked out.
If true it beggars belief.


Who determines how long the administrator waits to see IF the govt are going to help ?

Does the administrator decide this ?

Has he set a deadline, or is he just going to think some day, right, i've waited long enough, lets proceed with things ?

Is he still getting paid big bucks while we wait ?


Who determines how long the administrator waits to see IF the govt are going to help ?

Does the administrator decide this ?

Has he set a deadline, or is he just going to think some day, right, i've waited long enough, lets proceed with things ?

Is he still getting paid big bucks while we wait ?

Answer to last question is yes.

BETRAYED

News Flash

For the avoidance of doubt herewith second page of letter from OFMDFM to savers received 2 days ago.

Quote
The first and Deputy First Minister should know the outcome of these discussions shortly. They are also expecting a full paper on the full range of options open to resolve the PMS to be presented to the Ministerial Working Group within the next few weeks.
When they receive this they will decide the best way forward.
We hope you find this helpful.
Yours Sincerely,
David McCreedy PrivateSecretary/First Minister
Anne Martin PrivateSecretary/ Deputy First Minister

Message to all savers

Please do not be depressed by above. We are all working to get you all your money back. Sad that we did not get good news before Christmas or New Year but rest assured

"WE SHALL OVERCOME"

crazymess

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Churches-demand-action-over-PMS.5886801.jp