NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Flinflon

Thanks to crazymess for directing us to the Newsletter story. Finally, after more than a year, one presbytery has the integrity to stand up and bellow! Very encouraging to see! :jAnd it begs the question: Where are the other presbyteries? And exactly WHAT have the moderator and the PCI leaders done to encourage those presbyteries to stand up and be counted? Dr. Carson, show us the letter--if such a letter even exists--in which you urge, cajole, demand of them that they get off their butts, stand up tall and speak for their congregations and for the PMS savers. With respect, we all wait eagerly for you to show us what leadership you have demonstrated to those presbyeries.

Ballygal

Given the last few posts concerning the PCI's response to the PMS situation I thought I would share the large part of a letter I posted to Dr Carson a few days ago. Sorry it is so long!! I'll let you know if it bears results!

"I wrote to you in April 2009 to express my distress, not only with the impact that the PMS debacle was having on Presbyterian families like my own, but also at how the PCI had dealt with the situation since November 2008.
I stated in my letter of 22nd April “I think it will be YOUR responsibility in the coming months in your position as moderator to see that the PCI looks after their PMS members in a more Christian way than has happened until now. Please do something for all those elderly faithful members who are all in such a dreadful way not only over the money they cannot envisage getting back now, BUT more deeply upset over the lack of support they have received from their church leaders at Church House. YOU AS A CHURCH MUST DO SOMETHING AND QUICKLY! ”

So as Christmas 2009 approaches, I ask you, Dr Carson, what have you done for your Presbyterian families who listened to the advice given out by you, their church and put money into the PMS? Oh Yes! You will come back to me, stating you have met with this or that politician in Westminster, have made representations to the Working Party, and have written about it in your ‘blog’ but how much actual information about what you have said or done, has been given back to your many elderly church members who have been affected? Not all elderly Presbyterians read the News Letter, fewer the Irish Times and even less access the internet!

In my conclusion of my letter I said “I await a reply answering my questions and telling me how you are going to help my mum and all those other elderly people who are still trusting their church to sort this out, and myself who am not so hopeful that you will do your Christian duty to your congregations and members, but I hope you prove me wrong! “

Unfortunately I feel I have been proved right. I see little evidence of the PCI giving practical or emotional help to those PMS sufferers. You talk to the Irish Times where you say you‘ believe you have provided strong pastoral support to members affected by the collapse of the society.’ But I ask myself ‘How exactly?’

In my letter I had written “Finding out exactly who all has money in the PMS and to which church they belong, would be a start!” Now I ask you:
1 Have you asked for PMS members within churches to contact you in Church House and for the church to build up a list of individuals who are affected? Since this information is still not forthcoming from the administrator, I think you might have attempted to create one.
2 Have you even kept a list of those PMS members like myself, who have contacted you about their situation? Are we not worth some regular written contact from you to keep us updated. It appears not!!
3 Have you thought of offering to put interested and internet savvy PMS savers on a forum within the PCI website where they can access advice or support each other ?
It appears to many including myself, that the PMS issue does not appear to be top priority at Church House. It is not a regular item within each Presbyterian Herald issue. You have not appointed a dedicated worker to help individuals with difficult financial decisions. You have not offered to organise a meeting of PMS savers in Church House. I could go on. If there was a visible commitment to the PMS savers there would have been more evidence to them by now.
I repeat my view that I think the Presbyterian Church will come to regret it’s distant attitude to their members as this sorry tale unfolds. The Church appears to want to maintain secrecy, to avoid scandal, and to protect it’s reputation ( as well as preserving it’s assets!) but this is at the expense of the church’s own PMS members’ respect. The PCI should take note and learn from the recent disclosures within the Catholic Church, where it found that the truth came out in the end! In the future the whole truth of PMS will be known, and the PCI will be judged on how it has dealt with the it’s PMS savers.
I am still very angry and feel that the Presbyterian Church let my father and mother down. I am telling you that you as a church PCI (the PMS) did not deserve my dad’s money. You may say he did not give it to the PCI but to the PMS, a separate organisation. BUT the important thing is HE THOUGHT HE WAS GIVING IT TO YOU AND AT NO TIME DID YOU SAY HE WASN’T!!!! He thought the PMS was an integral part of the church to which he belonged and supported.
So, as you approach this Christmas season rather than the platitudes I anticipate will come from the PCI (involving prayer from you and continued patience from us) could I ask for a Christmas present to have some practical action please? When you wish people a Happy Christmas and offer Goodwill to all please remember the many elderly PMS savers for whom it remains a financial nightmare.


!

goodbyepci

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/PMS-not-linked-with-the.5888480.jp

Lester_F

16 anonymous people out of about 9000 savers voiced their support to the post which critised Stafford Carson.

crazymess

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Moderator-presses-for-PMS-progress.5891804.jp

pensiongone

Lester_F wrote: »

16 anonymous people out of about 9000 savers voiced their support to the post which critised Stafford Carson.

Lester F

Your post is up for 15 hours now, with no supporters.

I personally speak for 14 people, immediate family, badly affected by the PMS mess. That is not to speak for the extended family, the local congregation, lost local business, lost sales, lost holidays booked etc etc
If the 17 people who thanked Ballygal have a similar circle of concern and influence, you are talking about hundreds, maybe thousands.

Do the maths.

The Moderator is sitting on a general investment fund of £43M, which could do a lot to alleviate the suffering.

The Sisters of Mercy have suddenly come up with £118M for the victims of child abuse, it's amazing what a bit of pressure and bad publicity will do!

I really don't see why we should "give the guy a break" when he has the means to help solve this issue.

Flinflon

To repeat: Just what was your point, Lester F? By leaving the matter hanging, you leave the comment open to uncertainty, incorrect interpretation, etc. And the less we have of that stuff these days...the better. Would love to hear what you have to say, in full measure! Thanks!

Ballygal

While i am very grateful for the support my post received, i did not think it would be the cause of such a reaction!
Can i just say:
My criticism was not personal to Dr Carson, rather to challenge the PCI via the Moderator (given his role as leader of PCI) with regard to the pastoral role it has to it's members.
This letter was what i felt was a legitimate response to what he had initiated by his statement concerning the church's pastoral role in his interview in the Irish Times.
In my opinion the church has had over a year 'of a break' to support it's members emotionally, not considering the financial aspects or who who is to blame!!
I only wanted to speak on behalf of all those elderly PMSers who have suffered in silence and who do not have the energy, skill, or courage to speak out!

HOPE

We have all been caught out badly. I thought I was doing a good thing for the Church. PMS marketing was misleading. Had I known I would not have touched it with a 40' barge pole.

Between total recklessness with our hard earned money, bending and breaking the rules - what a mess. If that was not bad enough we had incompetent politicans in London and Belfast who must have thrown the PMS accounts in to a drawer or somewhere else because they tell us there was no regulatory framework and DETI had no supervisory role. It is laughable if it was not so serious. Lives have been shattered and wrecked and do they really care? Personally I do not think so. Stormont sat back for months doing nothing.

Thankfully the savers are not fools and stood up for themselves by lobbying a govt that failed us in the most terrible way. Between London and Belfast we could have been pulled out of this mess months ago. They probably thought oh Church going Presbyterians they will sit back and do nothing and neither will we.

I do not know how the First & Deputy First Minister & Co and the PM and his cohorts can sleep in their beds at night. One thing for sure they will have plenty of money available to buy Christmas presents, food, drink and plenty of heat unlike some of our savers.

crazymess

Perhaps the three pronged approach suggested by J McFall, MP is the way forward??

Wish HMG would let us know one way or the other - is help coming or not?? They are bound to know by now.

Surely the Administrator will have to get on with his job. Wonder what PCI will do then?