NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

brick

Sir Peter Viggers is a member of the Treasury Committee which, under chairmanship of John McFall, has been considering PMS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5360873/MPs-expenses-Furious-David-Cameron-orders-Tory-grandee-to-quit-over-duck-island.html

http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/treasury_committee/treasury_committee_members.cfm

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmtreasy/416/416.pdf - not much mention of PMS here!

No idea if Sir Peter is/was supportive of PMS savers.

Paddy2eyes

The biggest scandal of this whole debacle has been the reaction of the Presbyterian Church. They sought to distance themselves from the PMS (as legally thet were seperate) and encouraged people to direct pleas of help towards the government.
Contrast this with the church in Acts chapter 2
"All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

no_more_f.w.o

Paddy2eyes wrote: »

The biggest scandal of this whole debacle has been the reaction of the Presbyterian Church. They sought to distance themselves from the PMS (as legally thet were seperate) and encouraged people to direct pleas of help towards the government.
Contrast this with the church in Acts chapter 2
"All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."

The figures speak for themselves!

ANNUAL REPORTS, BELFAST, 2009
TABLE ONE
PERSONS AND AGENCIES
Comparison between figures for 2007 and 2008

Total Families – down - 742
Persons of all ages - down – 1,994
Contributors to FWO - down – 1,223
Baptisms – down – 13
Admitted to Lords Table for first time – down – 99
Communicants – down – 54
Attended at least one Communion during year – down – 979
Ruling Elders in Kirk Session – down – 150
Number on Rolls in Sunday Schools and Bible Classes – down – 731

The only figure going up is the number of ministers

I wonder what the figures will be like for 2009?

Grrrandad

goodbyepci wrote: »

Grrrandad
That's what "good little Presbyterians" would do!
Say nothing, keep their heads down, and "let things run their course"


What were we supposed to do?


Say nothing while the Church slunk away?
Say nothing while the Directors spoke to us like imbeciles?
Do nothing to establish the links between PCI and PMS which the church did their best to hide?
Sit on our hands instead of lobbying politicians and telling them our stories - how are they supposed to know the human cost of this if we don't tell them?

All of the above would have suited the church and Directors very nicely thank you!

Thank goodness there are plenty of determined, angry and indomitable people out there, who have worked hard lobbying and ferreting out all the hidden information we have now.

And posted it here in order to support and inform their fellow savers.


My recent post was prompted by the suggestion that we use David Cameron's visit to Ballymena as an opportunity to again highlight the plight of PMS savers.

Whilst I didn't think lobbying MP's would prove that beneficial I removed my hands from under my bottom and using the information provided on the site, I contacted the majority of them.

I don't know how others fared, but in the main, I received a stock reply expressing sympathy but advising me to contact my own MP as they could not get involved with constituency matters of another MP.

It is my understanding that the Administrator was put in place to look after the best interests of savers - can anyone tell me - is he not doing this?

I think he is in the best position to thoroughly investigate the actions of the PMS and hopefully in his next report he will indicate to us the best way forward in getting our money back - if it is shown that he was not acting in our best interests, then surely that is the time to act in a concerted manner, under the guidance of persons who are fully conversant with the correct procedure to follow.

Personally I feel no closer to my savings today than I did last November and believe me I am not a 'good little Presbyterian' dodging the issue, I am as angry and disgusted as the next person.

Unfortunately, the 'good little Presbyterians' received an early warning call and took their money out of the PMS leaving us in the position we find ourselves today!

Dr._Who_2

The General Assembly Reports 2009 are now avialable on PCI website. Go to website and click on "General Assembly" - this will take you to a list of reports. Click on the one you wish to read - PMS is found under General Board on page 24 onwards. You will need to go to the end of the report to see the resolutions which are bing placed before the Assembly. I must stress that these are General Board resolutions which may/may not be passed - watch for Daily Minutes to see what additional resolutions/amendments might come.
Haven't got Assembly Reports/Minutes back to the 1940's but I've seen enough to know that there were close ties between PCI and the rural Settlement Trust Ltd., to which even individual congregations made donations.

ordained

Might I suggest that we llobby our brethren in the Church of Scotland, especiallytheir Moderator who I presume will be attending "The Assembly " after all he may have some influence over Gordon Brown !! perhaps even arrange that face to face meeting with our politicians.

Every little helps !!

BETRAYED

I joined this forum recently and even I am retired I have not had time to read the some two and a half thousand earlier postings.
Being an optimist I have not altogether given up hope of a satisfactory conclusion to the affair.
Remember we the shareholders will have the final say on the society’s future.

Questions I have are these.

Why has it taken the administrator so long to report on his investigation on the conduct of the PMS Board members to DETI. Arlene Foster states that she only registers such societies and keeps copies of their annual reports. I thought Public Records Office in N. Ireland did the latter?

Why is the administrator writing to borrowers and asking them to repay loans and threatening legal action if they don’t. This is causing hardship on borrowers and may even bankrupt them in these hard times?

Why is it not just defaulters that are pursued.
Is he not ‘killing the goose that lays the golden egg’?

Why does the administrator always talk about an orderly rundown of the society and not talk about allowing it to continue in some form or other?

Why does the administrator not ask members or churches how much of their money they would be happy to leave in the society if it were to pay reasonable interest and get the benefit of protective legislation which should have been introduced in N. Ireland anyway?

Why was an extra-ordinary general meeting not called when withdrawals escalated ?

Why did board member and solicitor Alan Hewitt jump ship on 30th. September 2008 ?

Why are PMS board members , clergy and laity connected to Church House not prepared to discuss openly options for a solution or even meet investors.?
Do they think the matter is sub-judice?

If PMS was such a success for the PCI and Presbyterians in this land for so long why are heads turning away when the baby they created finds itself in ‘intensive care’.
I have been told that PMS Board Meetings opened and closed with prayer.
Hope they pray hard at forthcoming General Assembly.

BETRAYED

ordained wrote: »

Might I suggest that we llobby our brethren in the Church of Scotland, especiallytheir Moderator who I presume will be attending "The Assembly " after all he may have some influence over Gordon Brown !! perhaps even arrange that face to face meeting with our politicians.

Every little helps !!

Agreed. The Moderator of our sister Church might also be able to 'talk sense' to a few of our people at Church House.
He should get one of the pamphlets being distributed at the entrance door on the Monday evening from 6.00pm.
Hopefully he will see my poster for the occasion "BETRAYED BY CHURCH AND STATE".

PS Those giving out flyers and carrying posters must not obstruct the highway and must keep walking along the pavement if asked to move by any law enforcement officer. The protest must be dignified.

goodbyepci

Scroll down to "Questions for short debate"
Lord Maginnis of Drumglass to ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will assist the shareholders of the Presbyterian Mutual Society who have been affected by the Society entering administration.


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/minutes/090518/ldordpap.htm

goodbyepci

BETRAYED wrote: »

Agreed. The Moderator of our sister Church might also be able to 'talk sense' to a few of our people at Church House.
He should get one of the pamphlets being distributed at the entrance door on the Monday evening from 6.00pm.
Hopefully he will see my poster for the occasion "BETRAYED BY CHURCH AND STATE".

As the "Mother" Presbyterian Church is the Scottish Church wealthier than PCI?

Would they be in a position to help financially or guarantee/service a loan?