NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

crazymess

goodbyepci and all

Letter is en route now!! As groovy_jon posted before - probably two options:

firesale - perhaps return of little amount to the £1
stick with it and a slow run down over years - perhaps a small payment in June - and perhaps one payment a a year thereafter - can't understand what happens the staff in Glengall Street etc in this case.

No public meeting happening.

Absolutely shattering news, just can't understand why we were constantly told, nothing has changed, assets are safe, loans are safe - such a sad day for all of us who foolishly listened to the PMS/PCI.

Can goodbyepci please repost the idea you had for a petition to PCI and perhaps include Stormont Ministers and then groovy_jon can you get it online please, please.

We need the media to become aware of all of this - and hopefully get our voices heard.

presbyteriannomore

goodbyepci

I'm not in the least surprised that there is to be no public meeting. When I faced difficulties within the PCI over a different matter I was told by Presbytery that no matter what the circumstances their primary concern is the protection of the PCI and that proved to be very true, which is why I am presbyteriannomore. PCI have never been ones for facing up to things, they like to issue statements about how concerned they are and then hide! I agree with the text of your letter in post 173 but feel that no matter how many sign it PCI will just keep on stating it's nothing to do with them, although in saying that it's still worth a try if only to let them know the depth of feeling. It's probably also worth seeing if 10% of members will sign a requisition for a meeting as the fear of having to face those they have let down so badly may force some gesture by PCI.

crazymess

goodbyepci wrote: »

This is roughly the text I suggested before

"We the undersigned demand that the Presbyterian Church in Ireland faces up to its moral and ethical responsibilities towards investors in the Presbyterian Mutual Society.
Having actively encouraged members of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland to invest in the Presbyterian Mutual Society, and having benefited from the advantageous interest rates in order to build up the infrastructure of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland. We now demand that the Presbyterian Church in Ireland offers funding in order to facilitate withdrawal of investors loans and shares from the Presbyterian Mutual Society in full, and if necessary make up any shortfall in assets"

Can all those who are concerned and want to try to recoup their savings, read the above suggested wording for a petition. You would need to comment here before it goes online.

groovy_jon can you use this text to set up the petition should we get a general agreement?

We would then need another 'suggestion of wording' petition for our Stormont Ministers - and surely together they and the PCI can sort our problems out!

goodbyepci

From today's Newsletter
Concerns over Church's ability to aid shareholders

Newsletter
Published Date: 14 January 2009
THE Presbyterian Church has reported that its ability to help shareholders in the troubled Presbyterian Mutual Society (PMS) are complicated by legal and financial problems.
A Church spokesman has told the News Letter that few people have come forward seeking hardship grants and that the ability of the Church to directly help shareholders is fraught with legal and financial problems.
He said: "In exploring various pos sibilities to see if more can be done, the group has become increasingly aware of the complexity of the problem and the legal and financial implications which could mean any possible scheme would require changes to Church law and possible Government approval."
Further developments of any possibilities are also dependent on the administrators report which he began to post out to members yesterday, he added.
Newry accountant Roy Prescott, who is advising the moderator, told the News Letter that one difficulty is that larger shareholders in the PMS take priority over smaller ones, making it difficult to help smaller shareholders directly.
The Church spokesman said the suggestion previously considered, that congregations should pay off loans more quickly than scheduled to help those with immediate needs, also appears to be unworkable. This is because, while the society remains in administration, it is understood that any financial payout cannot favour one investor over another, he added.
The spokesman confirmed that a dedicated team appointed by Moderator the Rev Donald Patton, made up of accountants and clergy, is satisfied that already existing benevolent funds both at congregational and central level are helping with any situations of extreme hardship caused by the PMS problem and the economy in general. The spokesman said that at central level any grants that may be paid are modest, amounting at most to about £1,000. Only a small number of requests have been made for the facility, he said.
The administrator's report will be around a dozen pages long and contain a summary of the financial position of the society along with the administrator's proposed options on the way ahead.
The report will also contain voting papers for shareholders to make their voice heard on their preferred way ahead.
The administrator has said on the record that his aim was to see if the society can be rescued or if this was not possible, to wind the society down in a way which maximises the return of money to members.
He has also stated that selling the society's assets now might not produce the best return for members.
Much of the money is invested in commercial property which has dropped in market value at present but could make a good recovery in the future.

crazymess

well well!!

The PCI have reported in the Newsletter that they have set up a Hardship Fund - has anyone availed of this? Or is it a case of the PCI pretending to be helping but not really due to legal problems aha!!

PCI or some of your spokespeople - if you are reading could you please post on this site how one avails of the Hardship Fund - perhaps then you will not only have a few interested people as you have reported in the Newsletter. Our own Church Ministers know nothing of the apparent HARDSHIP FUND.


Think we are all digressing and forgetting about the PETITION TO PCI AND STORMONT.

Groovy_jon

Just a few thoughts on your post re what to do now - haven't received any professional or financial advice - just brainstorming!!

Take the money now - firesale - although not sure how get the loans repaid quickly!

May be an option as you can take whatever money and lower percentage in the £1 and try and make it work for you. Rebuild what capital is left. Also it could be the only option for some older investors who, may not have the time to wait 8 to 10 years etc. You could take the money now or after a firesale and pay off part of loans or mortgages etc because although cheap at present these will rise big time in the next five years - maybe back to 15% like before.

Wait and try and get as much in the £1 as possible

Not convinced this is the right option - we are not guaranteed full £1 for £1 back - we are losing our interest on our capital over all the years - we are still paying out of the fund our overheads, ie staff and administrators etc. We are not generating anymore income via new depositors or loans etc as the PMS is now not trading.


Either way its lose lose situation - disaster as I have maintained before and again.

Only way out is to petition PCI and Stormont.

Agree the PCI AND PMS are not legally the same, but they are our SISTER COMPANY. I always thought that in times of trouble you would do your best for your family!!!!

crazymess

groovy_jon

I don't know the full financials - you certainly can't read their accounts - their not too detailed.

Presumably they are still bringing in rentals - but remember their shopping centre or centres are losing tenants!!!! They have loans out to some people who can't repay! And they bought seriously overpriced properties! There seems to be a huge deficit.

crazymess

Just heard on the news that the government has stepped in to help Equitable Life Financial/Insurance - something happed them nine years ago. Apparently being helped within the NATIONAL COMPENSATION SCHEME!!!!

Does anyone know what this is? Could this help us?????

goodbyepci

they have a really good website here
http://www.equitablelifemembers.org.uk/

Anyone know how to set up a website?

amadan22

dear crazymess, could this be the same thing as www.fscs.org.uk? also it would appear that a mr.kennedy(newry,armagh) has 2 questions for d.e.t.i. at n.i. assembly on the 21st:- 1. what regulatory powers and duties does her dept have with regards to pms? 2.what discussions she has had with her majesty's treasury about guaranteeing investments in pms? is this likely to be fruitful or am i still naively optimistic?

amadan22

actually, no. this comes under "questions for written answer on wednesday 21 january 2009".