Castration (again!)

pboae

zebidee1 wrote: »

I think I'm right in saying that the US has a much, much larger problem than we do with regard to strays and unwanted dogs? Their program of early neutering is designed primarily to address this problem.

Not really, that's mainly why it is done here too, i.e. by rescues who are trying to reduce the unwanted dog populations. It's not routinely recommended for pets, but in the USA it's common across the board, not just by rescues.

zebidee1 wrote: »

I'm far from an expert on this subject as my previous posts show, but I've been doing some intensive reading on the matter and whilst I have read much about the benefits of early neutering, I have also read many articles listing the negatives.

If you have some references I'd be interested to see them. (I'm not having a dig, I really would like to read them). I've found lots of online opinion articles on it, but in terms of proper peer reviewed research in reputable journals, I found very few negative studies.

simontheiceman

zebidee1 wrote: »

I'm far from an expert on this subject as my previous posts show, but I've been doing some intensive reading on the matter and whilst I have read much about the benefits of early neutering, I have also read many articles listing the negatives.

Please do give me the refs - but only if they are from peer-reviewed literature (anything else is merely opinion). BTW - I have lots of actual real research to access on this, but unless you have real experience (as indeed I do - do you?) I guess its all just pie-in-the-sky.

Kerriebaby

fwiw, I have read articles on the net, and been given info from my vet, who now recommends neutering between the ages of 3-5.

Also early neutering can (IMO) lead to bigger problems down the line

zebidee1

pboae...I wrote a post last night and lost it when my connection went down again and couldn't face rewriting so went to bed, lol. I'm now on another pc so dont have details of the things I read, on here. I suspect they wouldn't be the type of article you would give serious consideration to though as they weren't 'peer reviewed', although the following did give details of references.

Example: http://neutering.org/files/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

zebidee1

simontheiceman wrote: »

Please do give me the refs - but only if they are from peer-reviewed literature (anything else is merely opinion). BTW - I have lots of actual real research to access on this, but unless you have real experience (as indeed I do - do you?) I guess its all just pie-in-the-sky.

Ok, my first instinct when I read this post was to be insulted. I then read and re-read it and I'm still a little insulted tbh. I have already stated I am no expert, you know that.

I am a pet owner with a serious interest in this subject who is trying to form a balanced opinion after reading various vet and behaviourist views and reports, so your question about 'real experience' comes across as patronising to me.

I also feel that dismissing alternative opinions out of hand simply because they have not been 'peer reviewed' is not conducive to a balanced discussion, or to future learning. The idea that early neutering is possibly harmful is still in it's infancy compared to the advice TO early neuter. In 10 years time perhaps it will have been substantiated in such a way that the 'norm' will have changed, perhaps it wont. The point is that in the meantime, I believe there are good arguments made in support of delayed neutering, as do various vets, trainers and behaviourists.

I was going to link to the vet and behaviourist articles but as they are largely irrelevant to you there seems no point.

Thanks for taking the time earlier in the thread to offer advice btw. I may not completely agree with your stance on neutering but I respect your opinions nonetheless and appreciate your thoughts and suggestions with regard to Harley in particular.

zebidee1

hethmar wrote: »

Cant see that simon. Surely the dog needs to mature and the hormones will be needed for that maturity of organs and body.

Simon, this is one of the main concerns of early neutering. Hormones play an important part in growth and development, There must be some negative effects if nature's growth process is interrupted surely? I'd be interested in your thoughts? You said there were no 'significant' adverse reactions...I'm wondering if that's the key word? Perhaps different schools of thought place different values on the types of adverse reactions there are?

I'm just thinking out loud really, I just find it hard to accept that there can be such wide differences of opinion between similarly educated and trained vets for example.

simontheiceman

Lets really clear this up.
1. Early neutering is widely practised - mostly in US but increasingly in UK
2. I dont early neuter - I dont actually agree and dont think I ever said that I did but may have given that impression.
3. I have strong reservations about anesthetising very young animals
4. The evidence in favor of early neuter is huge and growing.
5. The most oft quoted piece of evidence counter to early neutering is now some 25 years old and was a paper looking at growth plate closures in cats which had been neutered at the tender age of 4 months - there was evidence of delayed growth plate closure. Most of the other "against" have piggy-backed onto this.
6. I did a lot of investigation into this subject whilst working with the ASPCA in NYC and their long term follow up is excellent.Their conclusions are that is OK.
7. In rescue / shelter situations it represents one of the most suitable ways forward but I would not advocate it as a general policy to be offered to the paying clients. I'm still going to be waiting til later.
8. Dead right - I'll only look at evidence which has i) been peer reviewed and ii) has come out of a valid institution.
9. I once wrote a completely spurious newspaper article looking at a "novel alternative medicine". I made it all up and it was published. The response was huge - I had loads of requests for this "miracle" cure, which was great because it gave me a chance to see just how impressionable we all are. This is precisely why the internet is not necessarily the place to seek information.

simontheiceman

Oh.. BTW

10. I think the word you are all looking for is "troll".

hethmar

Well - as some one who does vollie work getting dogs out of pounds when their 7 days are up and they are due to be pts, I am very FOR neutering. 8000 dogs a year are put down in stray pounds in this country - let alone all the others in vets, in back streets etc.

I was just questioning the wisdom of tiny puppies being neutered at a few weeks old. Certainly every dog leaving a rescue should be neutered, chipped and vaccinated.

zebidee1

simontheiceman wrote: »

Oh.. BTW

10. I think the word you are all looking for is "troll".

I came here to ask advice and to discuss a serious subject.

Please ignore any of my future posts. Your rudeness offends me and comment number 9 in post 38 has let me see you in a different light.