Castration (again!)

nothavingfun..

simontheiceman wrote: »

Indeed, you may ask, but I will not give that kind of specific advice "over the phone".

No problem - was just curious to be honest.

suki1964

jenhug wrote: »

I would take the behaviourists opinion with a pinch of salt.

Why?

What qualifies you to make this statement?

orlao

Poor Harley....

I have to admit that I'd be inclined to get both ops done at the same time but that could be just because I'm always nervous about a GA...not a logical feeling btw as none of my animals have ever had a problem.

I have heard of dogs that aren't castrated due to behavioural issues but that IME is usually in multi dog households with 2 dogs of a similar age or status which can cause fighting to find their "place in the rankings" but IIRC Harley is an only dog? Maybe ask the behaviourist to clarify their thinking and then speak to your vet again?

My dog had mucky ears which drove him ( and me!) mad...he also had 2 clean outs under a GA and yes, at the time he was a s0d to get the ear drops in. After the first episode ( when his ears didn't hurt anymore) I started a training programme so he would let me at his ears....starting off with just looking at his ears, then a very high value treat of cat biscuits:o and working up to actually putting the drops in. It took a couple of weeks from start to finish and I still have hide the ear drops before he see's them or he's off;) Also he still doesn't like strangers looking in his ears, there is only one vet he will let look in his ear without protest. But that vet can do what he likes with him:D as the dog adores him, in fact if we are in the waiting room at the vets and he spots him the dog goes all "puppy" trying to get over to him....very funny looks from the other clients as their dogs sit there shaking or trying to leave every time the door opens:D The other thing that seems to have cured the ear problem is a product called Thornit which caused above vet to curl his lip when I asked about it but I've not had to use ear drops for 2 years since I tried it.....and his ears were spotless the last time they were checked at the vets!

foreign_correspondent

I would get them both done at the same time if it was my dog, to be honest the GA is the bit that always concerns me too (and they do always cary some level of risk), so I would prefer the dog to have just 1 rather than 2 if possible.

My dog didn't seem to notice being microchipped, but then she is always exceptionally happy to be at the vets! (dunno why, my last one was the same, they just like the attention I think!)

My mums dog jumped, yelped and tried to bite the micro-chipper, but then she is a bit nervy at times and tends towards drama-queenyness!

Neither of them had any irritation or soreness around it after at all, didnt seem to mind being stroked there etc.

Like people some dogs seem to get over a GA better than others - we were quite concerned about my mums dog who seemed shivery, groggy and drunk for well over 24 hours after

oystercatcher

pboae wrote: »

.

most dogs are virtually unfazed by castration. .

This seems to be a commonly held opinion. However my 'Dennis the Menace' who is a VERY sensitive soul and very anxious couldn't walk for a week after he was castrated. He had extra pain killers with no effect.
There were no complications or indications of any problem but Dennis couldn't even cross the room for food or a drink of water ....

I haven't read your previous posts so don't know the nature of Harley's problems. Dennis is very nervous but he was also becoming aggressive because of the nervousness and had got into several fights due to him snarling at other big dogs he didn't like who then pounced on him !!
He's gradually improving not sure how much is training and how much is the castration which was 18 months ago now. I'm glad he was done though.

Dennis is a small shih tzu cross and he can't walk if he has a leaf or small twig stuck in his fur, I've tried everything, sometimes he just 'goes on strike' for no apparent reason. So I guess he felt he couldn't move if the stitches pulled slightly.

Beryl the Peril his big sister was leaping around the room jumping on the settee after she was spayed and that's supposed to be a much more serious operation.

So it does depend on your dogs personality how he will react.

Dennis didn't notice at all when he was chipped and I'm SURE he would have said if it was sore !

My instinct would to be get everything done in one go, have a weeks convalescence and then hopefully he will be back to normal.

Hope you manage to decide

Oystercatcher

hethmar

I am a bit confused why a rescue would want you NOT to castrate the dog? Most rescues insist on it or have it done prior to adoption.

From my own experience - one of my dogs is disabled - was disabled at birth but has a good and full life - but because of his disability (1.5 feet chewed off by his mum :eek:) he was nervous of other dogs approaching him and would growl or even go for other dogs before they got to him. We spoke to our vet about this - he is very anti neutering for some reason - and he said it would make no difference at all.

Having spoken to a large number of dog people (I do vollie work for rescues) we decided it was for the best and he went in, had that done and was chipped at the same time. The vet was almost in tears and it made me feel so guilty but we were fearful that one day his aggression would lead to him getting badly hurt as he would normally go for bigger dogs, never smaller.

I wondered if we had made the right choice but now, nearly a year after the op (and he was up and running around a few hours after it), he plays with all the dogs he meets when we are out. He is still a bit nervy of big bouncy dogs but thank gawd we dont have him attacking them now.

I wonder if your dog would be happier if you introduced another dog into his household/pack who would make him feel that much more secure when you were out with them? We did this, have a beautiful castrated boy who is very laid back, very happy and very friendly. We do feel it has given our other boy a lot more confidence.

pboae

oystercatcher wrote: »

This seems to be a commonly held opinion. However my 'Dennis the Menace' who is a VERY sensitive soul and very anxious couldn't walk for a week after he was castrated. He had extra pain killers with no effect....

Which is why I said most, not all. Some dogs do suffer afterwards, but it's not the norm.

hethmar wrote: »

I am a bit confused why a rescue would want you NOT to castrate the dog? Most rescues insist on it or have it done prior to adoption.

I think this is meant for me? He dog was classed as a special needs dog, normally the rescue do insist on their animals being neutered (actually they usually neuter them before they are rehomed). But he had been seriously abused by his previous owners and had virtually every behavioural and physical problem going. Due to his almost total lack of socialisation he was scared of everything, and the violence he had suffered made him very defensive. In some dogs with severe fear aggression castration can make them worse, because testosterone gives them a confidence boost.

We knew about (most) of his problems when we took him on, and came with a list of special conditions and considerations that we had to show we had taken into account before we could adopt him. Not getting him castrated was one of those, because he was only just manageable then, and they didn't want to risk it making him worse.

zebidee1

pboae wrote: »

In some dogs with severe fear aggression castration can make them worse, because testosterone gives them a confidence boost.

Not getting him castrated was one of those, because he was only just manageable then, and they didn't want to risk it making him worse.

Which is what I keep coming back to. Although Harley isn't agressive, he does bark at other dogs and people sometimes, simply through fear. As soon as one looks at him, he's off. What if we castrate and he experiences a greater level of fear (because he now would have no testosterone boost) and he now starts growling agressively or God forbid, biting?

I have 24 hours left to make a decision and I'm nowhere nearer. My OH is bored of the conversation and says 'he's a dog, just do it'. Just because he's a dog doesn't mean he deserves less respect or consideration. I'm not about to physically change his body forever without a great deal of thought first, especially since there may be a chance he would be negatively affected by it. If someone could categorically say, he wont be affected then I'd go ahead with no more thought but there are still people who say he may well be affected (as in the case of pboae's rescue or my behaviourist for example).

There again, I wouldn't wish a life of sexual frustration or possible health issues on him either.

Oh for a crystal ball.

orlao

Would it be worth chemically castrating him first? TBH, I know nothing about the drug they use re side effects but it is at least reversible!

I would talk to your vet again, explain your concerns and maybe put off the castration if you're still not sure.

Re Microchipping

My vet recommends that little dogs are microchipped while they are under for castration/spaying but anything bigger than a JRT is fine without sedation. I flinch when I see the needle they use but I've never known an animal to be sore afterwards.

zebidee1

Tbh honest orlao, I'm not happy about drugging him either.

I've just spent the last hour in the vets talking to the receptionist who is a keen dog owner herself. She has had 2 dogs who have been castrated and 2 who weren't. One of the ones who wasn't done, developed a nasty tumor and had to be castrated at a late age which was hard for the dog to go through as he was obviously older and he didn't bounce back as well as a younger dog would.

She also had a nervous dog and he was done with no ill effects or any difference in his nature.

I picked her brains about the practical side of things, like how long does the op take, size of wound, how long before can leave etc etc. Apparently there is also a different type of collar that they can use, instead of the usual lampshade type. It's like a child's swim ring and it's less intrusive for the dog but is dearer to use. I dont give a toss about money right now, I just want my dog to be as comfortable as possible if we go ahead.

My vet is to speak to a behaviourist friend of his to ask for his opinion about Harley's issues and will phone me later on.

I wonder if there is anyone who has gone ahead but regretted it?

Again, I appreciate you all listening to me and offering me opinions etc. If I had no-one to 'talk' to about this I'd be a wreck by now.

Edit: Here's a pic of the alternative recovery collar, just in case it helps anyone else. It's made of lightweight foam with a vinyl cover. It looks more comfortable and less annoying that the usual lampshade type I think.