Castration (again!)

orlao

Fair enough, I can understand that;)

pboae

I know a few people who decided not to get their dog castrated due to fear aggression, but in all cases they were dogs who were already aggressive, and they couldn't risk anything that would make it worse. I don't personally know of anyone who has done it and regretted it, but I have heard of cases from people who's opinion I trust, so I do believe it happens, but it is very rare.

My dog had virtually no sex drive at all (before he was done he met b!tches in season with idiot owners, and thankfully showed no interest). If he'd had that frustration as well I can't imagine how we'd have coped. It did still calm him down afterwards though, and took the edge off his responses, so he didn't fly into a blind panic as quickly or as often, giving me time to intervene.

The other big difference was that it changed the way other dogs responded to him. After he was done there was a very noticeable drop in the number of other dogs that challenged him, and because he didn't go looking for fights only reacted to other dogs starting them, that meant we had far fewer incidents to deal with.

zebidee1

Well Harley has been and is back now. He still has his bits.

When we arrived at the vets, before I could open my mouth, he told us that he had been in discussion about Harley with someone else whose opinion he respected and the advice was not to castrate.

He said there was no medical need for it at present and upon reflection, and given his issues, Harley would be better left entire, at least for now. He was happy to do everything else but not to do the castration.

I have to say I was relieved as that fitted in with my gut feeling.

So Harley got sedated when we were there but whilst we were away he had to have a general anesthetic in order to get his ears thoroughly cleaned out. I was a bit shocked to see his shaved leg when we picked him up tbh as I was only expecting him to be sedated by the leg jab as that was what happened the last time.

He's lying on his mat in front of me trying to sleep but he keeps crying and shaking his head and rubbing his ears on the floor. I'm assuming they are sore because they've been fiddled with and flushed out?

Vet did say to phone later if there were any problems but I'll leave it a while to see if he settles first.

On a different note, I read an article saying the RSPCA are routinely neutering puppies as young as 6 weeks old. I find that shocking tbh. The more I've read about neutering, the more sense it makes to me to not neuter until 12 months at least. There are some very convincing arguments supporting later neutering. It would seem the RSPCA are only concerned with unwanted puppies and not overly caring about what potentially harmful effects they are causing in the individual animal itself. That's a whole new discussion though.

hethmar

Hope he soon gets over the op - do give the vet a ring if he is crying though - may be some pain killers would help him?

Yes, its been known about the RSPCA doing this for some while. Im surprised that the vets are willing to neuter at such an early age when the dog hasnt developed properly - but it aint like when Rolf Harris is with them is it.

orlao

zebidee1 wrote: »

On a different note, I read an article saying the RSPCA are routinely neutering puppies as young as 6 weeks old. I find that shocking tbh. The more I've read about neutering, the more sense it makes to me to not neuter until 12 months at least. There are some very convincing arguments supporting later neutering. It would seem the RSPCA are only concerned with unwanted puppies and not overly caring about what potentially harmful effects they are causing in the individual animal itself. That's a whole new discussion though.

That really shocks me for a couple of reasons.....

A GA at such a young age must be a risk and they presumably still in with mum and the rest of litter so how do they stop the other dogs/mum bothering the wound?
Also, since my rott had cruciate ligament problems I've found out ( too late, as usual:eek:) that early (6 months) neutering MAY be a contributary factor in ligament/joint problems in large breeds due to encouraging "leginess" which can put extra strain on the ligament. I don't know if this has been proven but it is a theory that's gaining ground

zebidee1

Yes I read that too orlao...

"Because early neutering removes sex hormones, this delays maturation of “osteoclasts” resulting in the delayed closing of the growth plates of the long leg bones creating leggy taller than average dogs, thereby increasing the risk of some orthopedic disorders such as cruciate ligament disease, Hip problems and possibly bone cancer."

I still see the positives in neutering but definitely not as early is as generally recommended tbh.

simontheiceman

zebidee1 wrote: »

On a different note, I read an article saying the RSPCA are routinely neutering puppies as young as 6 weeks old. I find that shocking tbh. The more I've read about neutering, the more sense it makes to me to not neuter until 12 months at least. There are some very convincing arguments supporting later neutering. It would seem the RSPCA are only concerned with unwanted puppies and not overly caring about what potentially harmful effects they are causing in the individual animal itself. That's a whole new discussion though.

I have been doing some work alongside the ASPCA within the last year or so and they have a large in-house cohort study of some 35,000 early neutering cases with follow up from their centres in the Eastern US. This is an ongoing project and already shows no significant adverse reasons for early vs late neutering.

The reason we dont routinely early neuter in the UK, is purely cultural. It is in fact perfectly normal to castrate / spay on the day of second vaccination in hundreds of clinics throughout the US. The evidence for early neutering is huge.

hethmar

Cant see that simon. Surely the dog needs to mature and the hormones will be needed for that maturity of organs and body.

pboae

I'm glad he's back home now anyway. When I get my ears syringed they are sore and make squelchy noises for a few days afterwards, so it may well be the same for dogs.

I used to be very against early neutering, but when I actually read up on the studies done in America (where as has been said, it is common), I have to admit there is more evidence for it than against. Yes in some breeds there can be minor problems (like slightly leggy dogs), but as yet there is no proof that it isn't just aesthetic. There is also a question over whether it can cause incontinence in b!tches, but again it's not really been proven yet. Domesticated dogs have been bred to be emotionally and physically immature for generations anyway.

I'm still not entirely comfortable with the idea, but I can't really justify my objections to it. The tens of thousands of unwanted dogs killed every year, make a fairly compelling argument.

zebidee1

I think I'm right in saying that the US has a much, much larger problem than we do with regard to strays and unwanted dogs? Their program of early neutering is designed primarily to address this problem.

I'm far from an expert on this subject as my previous posts show, but I've been doing some intensive reading on the matter and whilst I have read much about the benefits of early neutering, I have also read many articles listing the negatives.

It's one of those subjects that we all have to make up our own minds about, but it seems to me that there are enough potential negatives in early neutering that makes it worthy of some very serious consideration before going ahead with.