Karate price for my son. Am I being ripped off?

OfficeSpace

Typical McDojo behaviour sadly. They know full well that kids interest often falls off after a while. I started karate in Swindon when i was 8 (in 1990) and it was very popular at the time. A few years down the line there were probably 2 of us from the original group of 10 or so that joined up in the first few months of the club opening. If they had all been on these contracts then the instructor would have coined it in!

In terms of money making there was a guy in Swindon who ran a national (now internationali think) network of schools that really were at the front of making a mint from martial arts. All aimed at the most lucrative market section - parents. He had a Ferrari if i remember correctly and now touts himself as a guru of running martial arts schools over in the US now!

Sssssss

JulieJesta wrote: »

Hello,
I won't name the place my son goes. But he's nearly finished a 3 month trial.
To carry on IMO is realllllly expensive. We were quoted £2600 for "blackbelt" course. We would have to pay this in monthly amounts, based on an average child/adult taking about 3 years to work up to that level. We would STILL have to keep paying, even if damon quits in a year. To me, that seems barely legal. My son WANTS to do karate though, but i know this is more than we can afford, and i'd have to borrow.

When i mentioned this I was told i could pay £1800 in one lump at the begining, but thats still 2thousand in debt!! for a hobby!!

Everything in me says this is wrong, but my son wants karate. Anyone who goes to karate, or whose children do, please let me know what you paid?

We live in gloucester, and am particularlly interested to hear of cheaper local clubs. Preferablly on more pay as you go terms. I do NOT like the tie-in with the karate club my son attends. then its also the kit. Punching gloves, uniforms, belts which must all be bought from the club directly and a £20 pound per belt change "grading" fee. Thats alot on top of what they want upfront!

I think the message 'rip off' has come across loud and clear so no need to repeat it.

What I will say is you CAN'T buy a 'black belt' no matter how much or little you pay, it has to be earned through training and discipline and of course mastering the art of karate - kata and combat.

berniesmaster

omg, that crazy money!! i would never pay that on there terms for a hobby for a child, when everyone knows that kids change there minds about everything all the time, and they are really cashing in on that.

hannoja

Crikey :eek: The Karate classes we're thinking of sending our eldest (6) to are £29 p.m.. The first lesson is free if you don't come back: if you do it's the first lesson of the first month @ £29. If he still likes it then, it's £70 for the next month, which includes the month's weekly training (1 class a week), the suit and the licence. I didn't ask about grading/belt/gi prices, but I imagine they're on top.. so that's ~£389 p.a. before 'extras' - and I thought that was a lot! I forget how much it was when we did kickboxing but I'm sure it wasn't anywhere near £7 a lesson..

I've been browsing for other options and came across the term 'McDojo' which was mentioned above. I just came across another term for it too on reference.com:

McDojo is a pejorative term used by some Western martial artists to describe a martial arts school where image or profit is of a higher importance than technical standards. The term is an example of McWords applied to Japanese martial arts dojo. A McDojo of Korean martial arts may be referred to as a McDojang but the term McDojo is used for various arts regardless of origin. While using the term McDojo primarily indicates judgement of a school’s financial or marketing practices, it also implies that the teaching standards of such school may be much lower than that of other martial arts schools, or that the school presents non-martial arts training as martial arts. Where a McDojo's practices may border on fraud, this can be referred to as bullshido.

:rotfl:

I've also seen a bit written about Go Kan Ryu Karate, on martialedge.net which someone above linked to re. Samurai M.A. in Longlevens. Sounds like one to avoid (the GKR, not the Samurai).

The session I took our little lad to was 3/4 hr with about 5-10 minutes chat at the beginning about what belt each child was expected to get to by when etc.. There were several different belt colours being worn and the class itself was run well. Messing about was fairly but firmly dealt with; there was structure, with the children doing kicks to pads in turn, then practising some (non-contact) punching and blocking techniques in pairs, after being shown by the two 'sensei' teachers; then each child had to bow at the door before leaving. Pretty good class I'd say, so it's still an option, but in the interest of moneysaving, I'll see if I can find somewhere at half the weekly fees! It doesn't have to be Karate either. I think most well-run Martial Arts schools will provide a wealth of useful tools for anyone, and a great starting block for children.

Good luck with it Julie and tutkusmom. Keep us updated

bride_on_a_budget

my son and my husband both have first dan black belts in taekwondo , they are charged £3 for son and £4 for husband per 1h45min session paid only when you go to the lesson, they paid £80 for thier 1st dan grading and all other gradings are £20.
we do buy thier suits from the club, belts are £2 and the dobok is £20 for a plain one and £35 for a 1st dan suit.

there is a club near us that charges up front fees and before they grade they have to compete in 4 competitions/seminars with a fee of £50 per one.

we bought all their kit from the club, but when it gets too small, the club buys it back off us.

prowla

Avoid any karate that gives a specific timetable to achieve black belt.
Some will get it quickly, and some can take longer (it took me 7 years to get mine!).

Robbiefan

I wish I'd checked on this forum first. I feel I’ve just been ripped off by this. I was lead to believe I was signing up to a £79 per month standing order for a local martial arts club but what I've actually got is £2844.00 of debt.

I haven’t named the club but might be back as am going to see them later to see if they will let us cancel, but the finance agreement, has no cooling off period or the right to cancel! I wish I'd read it a bit closer before signing.

momoyama

Short answer: that's not a Karate club, it's a moneymaking exercise that you should steer well clear of.


Longer answer:

JulieJesta wrote: »

I won't name the place my son goes.

Oh do, it's dojo like these that cause the period argument on regulation to be raised. It's not Go Kan Ryu is it?

JulieJesta wrote: »

But he's nearly finished a 3 month trial.

I don't know of any dojo in the UK that do "trial periods".

JulieJesta wrote: »

We were quoted £2600 for "blackbelt" course.

:rotfl:

More seriously, this is what we in the Martial Arts world lovingly call a "black belt factory". As long as your cheques clear, he'll pass his gradings. May I enquire how many grades to Black Belt? As a rough rule, any more than eight means you're being ripped off. This isn't always the case, though.

JulieJesta wrote: »

We would have to pay this in monthly amounts, based on an average child/adult taking about 3 years to work up to that level.

With the very rare exceptions such as merit-based grading systems such as traditional Brazilian Jujitsu, you should never be able to grade to Black Belt in that short a time period.

JulieJesta wrote: »

We would STILL have to keep paying, even if damon quits in a year. To me, that seems barely legal. My son WANTS to do karate though, but i know this is more than we can afford, and i'd have to borrow.

Suggest to him that there's more to Martial Arts than Karate. There's a LOT of excellent out there.

JulieJesta wrote: »

for a hobby!!

Just for clarification, for a lot of us, it transcends a hobby. It's way of life.

JulieJesta wrote: »

Everything in me says this is wrong, but my son wants karate. Anyone who goes to karate, or whose children do, please let me know what you paid?

I charge:
- Children / unemployed / disabled / students = £3.00
- Adults = £3.50
And I'll discount people that seriously can't afford it by however much is needed for them as I won't see anyone losing out on Martial Arts if at all possible, such is the value that I place on it. There's also annual insurance / membership of £21 (under 16s) or £26 (over). Anything else such as the gi or gradings are up to the individual. I don't force them on anyone. I would add that I do NOT do this for a living; by profession I'm a full time Staff Nurse. If I were to go professional, then I'd have to increase my prices. So for that reason I won't criticise those that charge more than I do as they may need to. There are limits, though, and this dojo in question far exceeds them.

JulieJesta wrote: »

We live in gloucester, and am particularlly interested to hear of cheaper local clubs.

To put it into context, my dojo is just outside Worcester. So it's not like it's Yorkshire compared to London prices.

JulieJesta wrote: »

Preferablly on more pay as you go terms.

Any half decent club will have this as an option. Admittedly I pay monthly for Taekwondo, but that's through choice.

JulieJesta wrote: »

I do NOT like the tie-in with the karate club my son attends. then its also the kit. Punching gloves, uniforms, belts which must all be bought from the club directly and a £20 pound per belt change "grading" fee. Thats alot on top of what they want upfront!

£20 per grading is a little much for a child, but not a huge amount. But why this charge when you're already paying for his "black belt program"?

This is rip off on a grand scale and I really think that you should name-and-shame.


Hope this all helps


momoyama
4th Dan Aiki-Jujitsu
4th Dan Kempo-Jujitsu
1st Dan Kickboxing
1st Dan Karate-Jitsu
Spirit Combat International Instructor of the Year, 2007


P.S. up at this ungodly hour as I'm off to Uxbridge to do the British Aikido Board annual national seminar. Seven hours with some of the best Aikido Sensei in the country (including my Sensei's Sensei). For how much? TWENTY POUNDS for the whole day.

momoyama

trevorg wrote: »

Your daughter is going down the completely wrong path. Judo in my opinion would be far more suitable than karate for very young children, its sort of like tumbling but with a purpose. Judo is a sport, karate is an art and not a sport even though many might think it is, which is why you get clubs that offer training to kiddies as young as 3 (little grasshoppers, little dragons etc) but its all aimed at getting money out of you.

The highlighted but grabbed me. It's wrong. This is why I stopped doing Judo; because the Sensei tried to tell me this. Before you criticise my experience vs my Sensei's, at the time he was 1st Dan Judo and I was on the cusp of 3rd Dan Jujitsu.

Both Karate and Judo are Martial Arts. In both cases, there have been sport-orientated styles developed or the dojo has chosen to emphasise the sport side. The British Judo Association only do sport Judo. No disrespect as that's their choice, but this is why as much as I'd love to learn Judo, I wouldn't do so under the BJA.

momoyama

JulieJesta wrote: »

This is why we looked into karate. I had to tell my family its not about fighting. Damon was showing plenty of anger and jealousy issues. i wanted to give him a moral education and excersise and anger managment all at the same time. Martial arts (whatever style) fits this. So, karate is the best known sytle, which others suit a six and a half year old please??

Good plan. ANY good dojo/dojang/kwoon will do this.

With respect Karate may be the name you're most familiar with but it's not necessarily the best know.