Karate price for my son. Am I being ripped off?

tutkusmom

Yes that's what i said to them as well and the thing is i told them i would buy it from somewhere else but they told me i couldn't do that ,you have to buy our uniform with the logo on it.They had an offer for some parents and they were aloud to buy the uniform for £50 instead of £100 because they paid in full for their children up until black belt.What bugs me is they absolutely refuse the fact that this has never happened and i must be mistaking or the parents must be confused about what was offered to them.I asked over and over to a mum 3 times and she said she paid £1050 for the black belt course including the uniform where i only paid £1000 for the course with no uniform.I am absolutely stuck with them and i dont know what to do.I dont think they assest their students either with the gradings,it is just the case continue to attent the classes and here is your new belt but i haven't actually discussed it with them so i might be wrong,perhaps they are easier on kids who are hardly 4-5 years old.

trevorg_2

tutkusmom wrote: »

I had to send my daughter to a martial arts school because she is very gentle and very caring and because of the way she is who she is she got bullied big time.She couldn't cope with the classes at all when she first started because it was noisy and she use to put her hands on her ears,cry and shake.even though i may come across as a bad mum,i had to insist her to carry on so that she built up a bit of confidince.It is heartbreaking to listen to your child in her sleep saying please dont hit me it hurts.She is a lot better now,she is much more confident and she will tell you exactly how she feels about you such as,don't snatch my book,i had it first or don't hit me,she got louder which i like,you can actually hear what she is saying when she talks to you.She still wouldn't dare to hit,kick anyone which is not ideal anyway and she never has in her life.I never had the terrible twos with her,never had any behaviour problems at all.

Now for the paying the price in full,the school is the only martial arts school that is in walking distance for me and i don't drive,or you can take the bus and get off the but in front of it which is handy.Most schools take children in from the age 6+where i live and i just couldnt wait for her to be 6 for the sake of her because she has to learn how to defend herself . I first paid £395 for 6-8 months of training which they said till orange belt.I am still to this day confused as what they meant when they said orange belt because it is a long way before they achieve it.After a couple of months they come up to me and said we have an offer ,if you pay £1000 in full your child can train until she gets her black belt.When you are in a situation where you have to pay a further £600 poundish 4 months down to line and having to keep paying it at the same rate for the next 3 years or so just because this is how much the training cost you,you simply jump on the idea and pay it in full and feel relieved for the fact that you do not have to worry about the school cost anymore.

They graduate every 2 months at the moment and it could be because they are in dragons classes(for children between the ages 3-6).They start with a white belt,then they get white belt with red stripe,white belt with yellow stripe,white belt with orange stripe,white belt with green stripe,white belt with blue stripe and so on.Once they get their white belt with black stripe the belt colour changes to red belt with white stripe,yellow belt with white stripe,orange belt with white stripe,green belt with white stripe etc.and once they have all these belt colours it is a plain yellow belt i think they achieve but i am not sure as we are not there yet.My daughter will get her white belt with blue stripe in the middle of december.When they reach the age of 6 they train in the same classes with adults.

Overall it looks like a good school but very expensive and after the uniform incident,i have no intentions of keeping my daughter there.I was even going to start her to learn extreme martial arts there once she was 5 1/2 as this is the youngest age they accept students but i am not going to bother with that either(You have to pay a further £200 per year for your child to train to learn extreme martial arts for the same school alongside the costs of school)

Your daughter is going down the completely wrong path. Judo in my opinion would be far more suitable than karate for very young children, its sort of like tumbling but with a purpose. Judo is a sport, karate is an art and not a sport even though many might think it is, which is why you get clubs that offer training to kiddies as young as 3 (little grasshoppers, little dragons etc) but its all aimed at getting money out of you.

You have PMd me to which I have answered with my private email so happy to speak with you at length about this.
Osu
Trevor

trevorg_2

tutkusmom wrote: »

I had to send my daughter to a martial arts school because she is very gentle and very caring and because of the way she is who she is she got bullied big time.She couldn't cope with the classes at all when she first started because it was noisy and she use to put her hands on her ears,cry and shake.even though i may come across as a bad mum,i had to insist her to carry on so that she built up a bit of confidince.It is heartbreaking to listen to your child in her sleep saying please dont hit me it hurts.She is a lot better now,she is much more confident and she will tell you exactly how she feels about you such as,don't snatch my book,i had it first or don't hit me,she got louder which i like,you can actually hear what she is saying when she talks to you.She still wouldn't dare to hit,kick anyone which is not ideal anyway and she never has in her life.I never had the terrible twos with her,never had any behaviour problems at all.

Now for the paying the price in full,the school is the only martial arts school that is in walking distance for me and i don't drive,or you can take the bus and get off the but in front of it which is handy.Most schools take children in from the age 6+where i live and i just couldnt wait for her to be 6 for the sake of her because she has to learn how to defend herself . I first paid £395 for 6-8 months of training which they said till orange belt.I am still to this day confused as what they meant when they said orange belt because it is a long way before they achieve it.After a couple of months they come up to me and said we have an offer ,if you pay £1000 in full your child can train until she gets her black belt.When you are in a situation where you have to pay a further £600 poundish 4 months down to line and having to keep paying it at the same rate for the next 3 years or so just because this is how much the training cost you,you simply jump on the idea and pay it in full and feel relieved for the fact that you do not have to worry about the school cost anymore.

They graduate every 2 months at the moment and it could be because they are in dragons classes(for children between the ages 3-6).They start with a white belt,then they get white belt with red stripe,white belt with yellow stripe,white belt with orange stripe,white belt with green stripe,white belt with blue stripe and so on.Once they get their white belt with black stripe the belt colour changes to red belt with white stripe,yellow belt with white stripe,orange belt with white stripe,green belt with white stripe etc.and once they have all these belt colours it is a plain yellow belt i think they achieve but i am not sure as we are not there yet.My daughter will get her white belt with blue stripe in the middle of december.When they reach the age of 6 they train in the same classes with adults.

Overall it looks like a good school but very expensive and after the uniform incident,i have no intentions of keeping my daughter there.I was even going to start her to learn extreme martial arts there once she was 5 1/2 as this is the youngest age they accept students but i am not going to bother with that either(You have to pay a further £200 per year for your child to train to learn extreme martial arts for the same school alongside the costs of school)

I am responding to this even though you have PMd me, but it is so that others might see.

The sort of colour grading that is going on is not the traditional way, but is designed as a motivational tool for youngsters and it follows that it must be paid for. Obviously the more grades there are the higher the likelihood they must be paid for at each grading, ergo the more gradings there are the more money the club makes.

As I have said previously there is no such thing as a black belt course and anyone who tells you otherwise is pulling your leg.

To give you an idea, although I appreciate the belt colours vary from style to style of karate, it generally follows this pattern:

White belt - beginner to 3 months
yellow belt (called a kyu grade) - 3-6 months
orange belt - 6-12 months
green belt - 12-18 months
blue belt - 18-24 months
brown belt - 24-48 months
(these are approximations)

many styles have multiples of belts so there might be two at each level. Normally brown is achieved after 2-3 years and black belt (shodan - 1st dan or 1st degree) is normally achieved after 4 years study.

Buyer beware is allways the position you should take, especially if someone comes to you with a deal and asks for money up front for training.

Hope this helps a little
Osu
Trevor

custardy

trevorg wrote: »

Your daughter is going down the completely wrong path. Judo in my opinion would be far more suitable than karate for very young children, its sort of like tumbling but with a purpose. Judo is a sport, karate is an art and not a sport even though many might think it is, which is why you get clubs that offer training to kiddies as young as 3 (little grasshoppers, little dragons etc) but its all aimed at getting money out of you.

You have PMd me to which I have answered with my private email so happy to speak with you at length about this.
Osu
Trevor

where i do my Krav Maga they do a kids Judo class beforehand.kids seem to really enjoy it
ive been to a few of the adult classes and the instruction seems really good.
(mind i got my !!! whooped on the ground )

meester

tutkusmom wrote: »

I had to send my daughter to a martial arts school because she is very gentle and very caring and because of the way she is who she is she got bullied big time.She couldn't cope with the classes at all when she first started because it was noisy and she use to put her hands on her ears,cry and shake.even though i may come across as a bad mum,i had to insist her to carry on so that she built up a bit of confidince.It is heartbreaking to listen to your child in her sleep saying please dont hit me it hurts.She is a lot better now,she is much more confident and she will tell you exactly how she feels about you such as,don't snatch my book,i had it first or don't hit me,she got louder which i like,you can actually hear what she is saying when she talks to you.She still wouldn't dare to hit,kick anyone which is not ideal anyway and she never has in her life.I never had the terrible twos with her,never had any behaviour problems at all.

Now for the paying the price in full,the school is the only martial arts school that is in walking distance for me and i don't drive,or you can take the bus and get off the but in front of it which is handy.Most schools take children in from the age 6+where i live and i just couldnt wait for her to be 6 for the sake of her because she has to learn how to defend herself . I first paid £395 for 6-8 months of training which they said till orange belt.I am still to this day confused as what they meant when they said orange belt because it is a long way before they achieve it.After a couple of months they come up to me and said we have an offer ,if you pay £1000 in full your child can train until she gets her black belt.When you are in a situation where you have to pay a further £600 poundish 4 months down to line and having to keep paying it at the same rate for the next 3 years or so just because this is how much the training cost you,you simply jump on the idea and pay it in full and feel relieved for the fact that you do not have to worry about the school cost anymore.

They graduate every 2 months at the moment and it could be because they are in dragons classes(for children between the ages 3-6).They start with a white belt,then they get white belt with red stripe,white belt with yellow stripe,white belt with orange stripe,white belt with green stripe,white belt with blue stripe and so on.Once they get their white belt with black stripe the belt colour changes to red belt with white stripe,yellow belt with white stripe,orange belt with white stripe,green belt with white stripe etc.and once they have all these belt colours it is a plain yellow belt i think they achieve but i am not sure as we are not there yet.My daughter will get her white belt with blue stripe in the middle of december.When they reach the age of 6 they train in the same classes with adults.

Overall it looks like a good school but very expensive and after the uniform incident,i have no intentions of keeping my daughter there.I was even going to start her to learn extreme martial arts there once she was 5 1/2 as this is the youngest age they accept students but i am not going to bother with that either(You have to pay a further £200 per year for your child to train to learn extreme martial arts for the same school alongside the costs of school)

It sounds like you have been conned.

Suggest you read this

http://domain461571.sites.fasthosts.com/compare_prices.asp

How can they possibly say 'give us this much money to get to black belt'? It isn't possible. It takes time, and depends on the individual.

Unfortunately far too many places run this as a money-making scheme first, and any training only as an afterthought.

I went along to a local school last week, they want £7/session, plus grading fees, membership fees, and the instructor teaches consecutive lessons with 20+ students in 3 different martial arts, that's a lot of wonga, no thanks, not taking my son back there.

tutkusmom

Thanks everyone for your comments,looks like Julie had a lucky escape and I am in the middle of a mess.I am hoping the school my daughter attending is a good one but expensive,i can only wish.As i have already paid I will take my daughter there regardless and will figure something out once when she gets her black belt.

Aegis

JulieJesta wrote: »

Hello,
I won't name the place my son goes. But he's nearly finished a 3 month trial.
To carry on IMO is realllllly expensive. We were quoted £2600 for "blackbelt" course. We would have to pay this in monthly amounts, based on an average child/adult taking about 3 years to work up to that level. We would STILL have to keep paying, even if damon quits in a year. To me, that seems barely legal. My son WANTS to do karate though, but i know this is more than we can afford, and i'd have to borrow.

When i mentioned this I was told i could pay £1800 in one lump at the begining, but thats still 2thousand in debt!! for a hobby!!

Everything in me says this is wrong, but my son wants karate. Anyone who goes to karate, or whose children do, please let me know what you paid?

We live in gloucester, and am particularlly interested to hear of cheaper local clubs. Preferablly on more pay as you go terms. I do NOT like the tie-in with the karate club my son attends. then its also the kit. Punching gloves, uniforms, belts which must all be bought from the club directly and a £20 pound per belt change "grading" fee. Thats alot on top of what they want upfront!

Quite frankly, tell them to get stuffed and find a better school. This is a typical tactic used by McDojos who know full well that you have a very high chance of dropping out and they still get your cash.

Leave that school alone and find one that allows you to pay on a per session or per month basis with no tie-in period. Most BJA affiliated Judo clubs will be good value, and if your kid has his heart set on karate, look up some more local clubs with a better deal.

If you need more information, check out martialartsplanet.com , e-budo.com or martialtalk.com (though the last one is primarily a US website). All three are dedicated to helping people find the best school for their training needs, and you will find a warm welcome at any of them if you are genuinely seeking somewhere nice for your kid to train.

I saw Go Kan Ryu being mentioned here... Care needs to be taken with that organisation, as there are rumours that many of their instructors are junior grades who have been awarded a teaching black belt but still have a huge lack of experience. There's also talk that they may be uninsured for any form of contact training, which is essential if you actually want to get good at any martial art. These are only rumours that I can't investigate easily myself, but it's certainly something to ask if you want to send your kids along to one of their classes.

Send me a message if you'd like any further opinion from me, as this isn't normally my area of the forum!

chinup_3

trevororg bang on. karate not for children- judo waaay better.

coolio_2

To be fair, 3 lessons a week at £4.50 is over £2000 for 3 years. Then you have insurance and the gradings/belts. So yes it probably is a bit too much, but the commitment to a 3 year term would be a killer for me.

custardy

for anyone interested then combat magazine has an article on 10 things you should ask your childs instructor
you can view this free online but will have to register the site to view
http://www.combatmag.co.uk/index.php