PPI Reclaiming discussion Part III

di3004

I just found some info in my saved stuff and forgotten all about it,this was a few months ago, I saved it and forgot to read it. this was about Endeavour and I'm sure this member will not mind me adding this here but this was what she made out of it:

.......................................................................................................................

The Early Settlement Regs are a minefield and there are a number of things to be looked at here:

If the PPI was compulsory (leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it should have been), it is classed under the CCA as a 'linked transaction' and is therefore exempt from the calculation of rebate under the settlement regs. - i.e. you don't get any rebate on it!!

The rebate is based upon the entire loan - i.e. the full amount of capital and interest you would have paid if the loan had gone full term. In this case, they have taken the full amount due under the agreement (£64450.83) and deducted from that the rebate they have calculated according to the chosen formula, leaving a balance payable by you of £23526.04 + a 'legal sealing fee' ( you need to check your T&Cs to see what that's all about!). So, they appear to have given a rebate of £40+ grand. I think the confusion is caused by the first line of the statement 'BALANCE OF ACCOUNT OUTSTANDING AS AT 4TH OCTOBER 2005 £23561.73', which suggests that this is all you owed in total, whereas it's actually the figure owed at that date only, without including any of the future interest payable under the agreement.

The Regs changed in 2004, primarily to abolish the 'Rule of 78' calculation method which is grossly unfair, but unfortunately they did not come into effect until 2005, and there are transitionary clauses which your agreement are caught by (see clause 10):

dreamer33

di3004 wrote: »

I just found some info in my saved stuff and forgotten all about it,this was a few months ago, I saved it and forgot to read it. this was about Endeavour and I'm sure this member will not mind me adding this here but this was what she made out of it:

.......................................................................................................................

The Early Settlement Regs are a minefield and there are a number of things to be looked at here:

If the PPI was compulsory (leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it should have been), it is classed under the CCA as a 'linked transaction' and is therefore exempt from the calculation of rebate under the settlement regs. - i.e. you don't get any rebate on it!!

The rebate is based upon the entire loan - i.e. the full amount of capital and interest you would have paid if the loan had gone full term. In this case, they have taken the full amount due under the agreement (£64450.83) and deducted from that the rebate they have calculated according to the chosen formula, leaving a balance payable by you of £23526.04 + a 'legal sealing fee' ( you need to check your T&Cs to see what that's all about!). So, they appear to have given a rebate of £40+ grand. I think the confusion is caused by the first line of the statement 'BALANCE OF ACCOUNT OUTSTANDING AS AT 4TH OCTOBER 2005 £23561.73', which suggests that this is all you owed in total, whereas it's actually the figure owed at that date only, without including any of the future interest payable under the agreement.

The Regs changed in 2004, primarily to abolish the 'Rule of 78' calculation method which is grossly unfair, but unfortunately they did not come into effect until 2005, and there are transitionary clauses which your agreement are caught by (see clause 10):

Interesting Di they should not be aloud to just put the total amount for that date it should show you amount including % for full term. If I had of seen the full amount I would not be trying to reclaim mis-sold ppi:mad:

di3004

Here is a useful calculator too, this will tell you if the rule of 79 were used, wow I'm finding all my old stuff lol.

http://brian-stewart.orpheusweb.co.uk/credit/javascript/equalr78-prr.htm

This calculator handles calculations under the rules in the 1983 Rebate on Early Settlement Regulations, for newer loans you should use the method in the 2004 Early Settlement Regulations.

The result given for the settlement figure assume that all payments up to and including that due on the settlement date are also made. In practice you will have to pay the settlement figure plus the payment due on the settlement date to settle. The lender may give you a figure which also includes any other payments due before the settlement date. If you are in arrears, the missed payments will have to be made up and other charges may be payable too.

If you ask the lender for a settlement statement (strictly, you should do that in writing) , the settlement date used is the date of the next repayment due 28 days after they get your request (unless you give a later date). For example: if repayments are due on the 15th of every month and you ask for a settlement figure on the 20th of January, the 28-day period will go beyond the 15th of February and the date used will be the 15th of March.


The rules allow the lender to 'weight' the calculation by working out the rebate assuming you settle later - for loans longer than five years a one month weighting can be used and for shorter loans two months. The calculator adds this automatically and displays '+1' or '+2' in the Time of Settlement box. As the weighting is in months, for weekly loans '+4' and '+8' weeks are added instead.

The rules allow the use of a method called the 'Rule of 78' to calculate the rebate, unless the loan is repaid in a single amount. If the Additional Final Repayment is equal to, or more than, Amount of Credit, the calculator assumes that the loan is being repaid in a single amount and uses the 'Pro-rata' method instread.

marshallka

di3004 wrote: »

I just found some info in my saved stuff and forgotten all about it,this was a few months ago, I saved it and forgot to read it. this was about Endeavour and I'm sure this member will not mind me adding this here but this was what she made out of it:

.......................................................................................................................

The Early Settlement Regs are a minefield and there are a number of things to be looked at here:

If the PPI was compulsory (leaving aside for the moment the issue of whether it should have been), it is classed under the CCA as a 'linked transaction' and is therefore exempt from the calculation of rebate under the settlement regs. - i.e. you don't get any rebate on it!!

The rebate is based upon the entire loan - i.e. the full amount of capital and interest you would have paid if the loan had gone full term. In this case, they have taken the full amount due under the agreement (£64450.83) and deducted from that the rebate they have calculated according to the chosen formula, leaving a balance payable by you of £23526.04 + a 'legal sealing fee' ( you need to check your T&Cs to see what that's all about!). So, they appear to have given a rebate of £40+ grand. I think the confusion is caused by the first line of the statement 'BALANCE OF ACCOUNT OUTSTANDING AS AT 4TH OCTOBER 2005 £23561.73', which suggests that this is all you owed in total, whereas it's actually the figure owed at that date only, without including any of the future interest payable under the agreement.

The Regs changed in 2004, primarily to abolish the 'Rule of 78' calculation method which is grossly unfair, but unfortunately they did not come into effect until 2005, and there are transitionary clauses which your agreement are caught by (see clause 10):

Di, if this is about Endeavour again look again

Your loan 21K
Your PPI 2835

total over the loan was 300 payments of 208.51 = 62553.00 plus fees etc as endeavour charge don't they???

You repaid to them 3336 (but only 310.72 of this amount was capital as the rest was INTEREST) and then settled at 23646 so the whole loan and PPI cost you 26982.00 for borrowing £21K over 300 months. (Your interest for this would be about 189.00 per month so that totals 3024.00 in interest for borrowing this amount over 16 months)



The interest would be £166.60 on the loan per month and that only on the £21K and not the PPI included
with the PPI (2835) interest it would be 189.09 interest from each of your repayments of £208.51 so you were paying them 208.51 each month but only reducing the loan by actually £19.42 each month really.

You then total the 19.42 x 16 = 310.72 and this is what you had paid off the loan of £23835 really. You then owe 23524.00 plus the two months interest to settle and then you had charges too and I cannot remember what they were so add say £150 to that being 23674.28 and you settled



23526.00 so you were not charged any interest that was owing on the PPI at all. You really just paid for what you had used..

They did not charge you any interest whatsoever on the PPI to settle


You have asked for £3722.68 back from them plus statutory interest of 8% and then that would mean that you would not have been charged anything for having the loan at all and in fact they would have paid you..

dreamer33

:mad: just called FF to ask where my letter is said posted out today should get it tomorrow.:mad:

I feel so angry at the min FF doing my head in:mad:

Whilst looking through my SAR I found 3 signed credit agreements? All of them went to FF what is going on here?

dreamer33

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2008/127.shtml

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Di, if this is about Endeavour again look again

Your loan 21K
Your PPI 2835

total over the loan was 300 payments of 208.51 = 62553.00 plus fees etc as endeavour charge don't they???

You repaid to them 3336 and then settled at 23646 so the whole loan and PPI cost you 26982.00 for borrowing £21K over 300 months. (Your interest for this would be about 189.00 per month so that totals 3024.00 in interest for borrowing this amount over 16 months)



The interest would be £166.60 on the loan per month and that only on the £21K and not the PPI included
with the PPI (2835) interest it would be 189.09 interest from each of your repayments of £208.51 so you were paying them 208.51 each month but only reducing the loan by actually £19.42 each month really.

You then total the 19.42 x 16 = 310.72 and this is what you had paid off the loan of £23835 really. You then owe 23524.00 plus the two months interest to settle and then you had charges too and I cannot remember what they were so add say £150 to that being 23674.28 and you settled



23526.00 so you were not charged any interest that was owing on the PPI at all. You really just paid for what you had used..

They did not charge you any interest whatsoever on the PPI to settle and just charged you what it cost for the PPI over the 16 months...


You have asked for £3722.68 back from them plus statutory interest of 8% and then that would mean that you would not have been charged anything for having the loan at all and in fact they would have paid you..

Thanks again hun, I'm just going over this now as the letter from the FOS has gone off to hamilton and i have found some further calculations this was added here, but settled Nov 2005.

22/11/05 settlement proceeds - Credit amount = 23646.04

22/11/05 settlement admin fee = 120

22/11/05 settlement rebate ins = 1533.69 balance = 23501.76

22/11/05 settlement interest = 1123.29



...............................................................................................
The interest charged over the 15 months were between £184 to £195

marshallka

Mine for reference going by the same method as I have for yours and mine was nothing like what I have asked for here.... I have asked for way more than I should have done .....

Loan 17K
PPI 4163

Total loan 160 x 281.25 = 45000

Repayments 39 x 281.25 = 10968.75 (but 8809 of this was interest and have checked and added this up from the statement of my account) so only reduced the capital by £2159.75)

So 21163 - 2159.75 = 19003.25

Settled at £20410 so difference of 1407 and I had a single payment of 1388.13 being settlement interest at the end.(???????????)

My loan for 39 months cost me 31410 to borrow £21163(being the 17K loan without interest and also the PPI without interest) but £8809 of this was interest so was over charged by about 1407.00 over the amount. This is the true amount I should be asking for back as over charged :eek: . (If truth be known!!!)

I think we all forget that to borrow money we have to be charged interest....

di3004

marshallka wrote: »

Mine for reference going by the same method as I have for yours and mine was nothing like what I have asked for here.... I have asked for way more than I should have done .....

Loan 17K
PPI 4163

Total loan 160 x 281.25 = 45000

Repayments 39 x 281.25 = 10968.75 (but 8809 of this was interest and have checked and added this up from the statement of my account) so only reduced the capital by £2159.75)

So 21163 - 2159.75 = 19003.25

Settled at £20410 so difference of 1407 and I had a single payment of 1388.13 being settlement interest at the end.

My loan for 39 months cost me 31410 to borrow £21163(being the 17K loan without interest and also the PPI without interest) but £8809 of this was interest so was over charged by about 1407.00 over the amount. This is the true amount I should be asking for back as over charged :eek: . (If truth be known!!!)

I think we all forget that to borrow money we have to be charged interest....

Now yours is an horrific amount, its disgusting......:eek: , I am still trying to learn the same time though but your right what you said about mine, just feel a bit silly really on mine because hamilton may just have a giggle about this.......:o

dreamer33

Just called the FSA he said that I should seek legal advice as the evidence I have ie telephone call saying "right the thing is if you can't afford the ppi I don't think you will be looking at the loan there basically" is strong evidence.

I want to cry