PPI Reclaiming discussion Part III

spacecadets

marshallka wrote: »

£445 x 240 = £106800.00

PPI element was 16.65% which is 6995.00 divide by total loan and PPI

16.65% of the total of the loan is 17782.20 this is the actual amount of the PPI if you had repaid the loan.. 1778220 divide by 240 = 74.09

You have made 66 payments of 74.09 so far = 4889.94

That was quick! Thank you. Is this just the interest they owe?

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Did you say the other day marshallka that someone told you that it was the insurers who did the calculations not FP?

Yeah, i put my complaint for my unfair rebate of the insurance against Firstplus and was told by the FOS:D that this complaint is determined by the insurer of the policy as it was them that underwrote the terms and conditions and did the rebate. I was also told that FOS would then write to the insurer on my behalf and ask for a final response to it. Then they would be able to at least look into this under compulsory jurisdiction as most "insurers" were under the Ombudsman and before that the Insurance Ombudsman.

marshallka

spacecadets wrote: »

That was quick! Thank you. Is this just the interest they owe?

The full amount of the PPI is £17782.20 and this is the total amount that you would have paid if you had paid the loan until settlement date. This is what you are looking for back but if this is not paid up then you have not actually paid this amount yet so they may give you back what you have paid against this being the 66 payments of £74.09 and then rebate the rest off the new loan that you will have without the PPI. Not completely sure of this but they have been known to do it this way...

spacecadets

marshallka wrote: »

The full amount of the PPI is £17782.20 and this is the total amount that you would have paid if you had paid the loan until settlement date. This is what you are looking for back but if this is not paid up then you have not actually paid this amount yet so they may give you back what you have paid against this being the 66 payments of £74.09 and then rebate the rest off the new loan that you will have without the PPI. Not completely sure of this but they have been known to do it this way...

How complicated!! Does this all depend on whether it was a front loaded policy or not? Or am I getting really confused? The reason for my confusion is that I have already had the 5 yr cashback that they use to entice you into taking out the ppi this being just shy of £7k

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Yeah, i put my complaint for my unfair rebate of the insurance against Firstplus and was told by the FOS:D that this complaint is determined by the insurer of the policy as it was them that underwrote the terms and conditions and did the rebate. I was also told that FOS would then write to the insurer on my behalf and ask for a final response to it. Then they would be able to at least look into this under compulsory jurisdiction as most "insurers" were under the Ombudsman and before that the Insurance Ombudsman.

I was asking because on the bottom of my settlement letter is states:

We trust this information has clarified the way FP calculates its settlement figure and has answered your questions. (they tell me that they use the rule of 78) and in accordance with the Consumer Credit (rebate on early settlement) regs 1983.

And they also state they use the rule of 78 which was devised by the OFT.

It seems to me like FP do the settlement figures and not anyone else

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

I was asking because on the bottom of my settlement letter is states:

We trust this information has clarified the way FP calculates its settlement figure and has answered your questions. (they tell me that they use the rule of 78) and in accordance with the Consumer Credit (rebate on early settlement) regs 1983.

And they also state they use the rule of 78 which was devised by the OFT.

It seems to me like FP do the settlement figures and not anyone else

Firstplus do do the settlement figure but my complaint if its about the actual settlement is outside of jurisdiction so I am complaining about the rebate against the insurance. Its not the same as the rule of 78 used in the settlement, that was fine to use but can be challenged in COURT. Its about using the rule of 78 against the rebate of the insurance, which again is fine but firms like Firstplus first take away so much of the PPI then apply the rule of 78 so this is where it is unfair. This then comes from the term in the PPI policy itself. You are then not getting rule of 78 against 100% of the policy but more like 10% instead.

Tron_ess explained it here


You probably had it against something more like 50% of the premium (an example as most firms are slightly different). So basically if you cancel in 30 days you get 100%. If in month 2 you get 50% !!! Then they apply Rule of 78 from there. The point is - you didn't know!! and probably still don't because the T&Cs of the policy didn't make this clear. Unfair contract term perhaps?

and posted this too to explain


When you are claiming a rebate for cancelling insurance - insurers are still allowed to use Rule of 78. They merely take the premium amount - and apply their calculation to that. Then take that from the current loan.

The point I was making is that few actually give you Rule of 78. What they do is apply rule of 78 against a % of the original premium. They may only apply the rule of 78 against 25% of the premium. This means that if you cancelled after 45 days - you'd only get 25% rebate. That's their starting point!!! If you use true rule of 78 on a 5 year policy and cancelled in Month 2 you get approx 85% back. (crude maths here - but you get the picture).

Basically if firms were applying rule of 78 FOS would have no issues. The fact is that they first take 50% or more away, and then apply rule of 78!!

sportage1kia

Hi there
I was just wondering if any other people were waiting to hear from HBOS regarding their PPI settlement and what the average waiting times are, pardon me but I know there is a backlog.
I received letter from Fos in August stating that HBOS were refunding payments as a gesture of goodwill and been advised since that it may take 6-8 weeks. Any reply would be appreciated.
Regards

dreamer33

marshallka wrote: »

Firstplus do do the settlement figure but my complaint if its about the actual settlement is outside of jurisdiction so I am complaining about the rebate against the insurance. Its not the same as the rule of 78 used in the settlement, that was fine to use but can be challenged in COURT. Its about using the rule of 78 against the rebate of the insurance, which again is fine but firms like Firstplus first take away so much of the PPI then apply the rule of 78 so this is where it is unfair. This then comes from the term in the PPI policy itself. You are then not getting rule of 78 against 100% of the policy but more like 10% instead.

Tron_ess explained it here


You probably had it against something more like 50% of the premium (an example as most firms are slightly different). So basically if you cancel in 30 days you get 100%. If in month 2 you get 50% !!! Then they apply Rule of 78 from there. The point is - you didn't know!! and probably still don't because the T&Cs of the policy didn't make this clear. Unfair contract term perhaps?

and posted this too to explain


When you are claiming a rebate for cancelling insurance - insurers are still allowed to use Rule of 78. They merely take the premium amount - and apply their calculation to that. Then take that from the current loan.

The point I was making is that few actually give you Rule of 78. What they do is apply rule of 78 against a % of the original premium. They may only apply the rule of 78 against 25% of the premium. This means that if you cancelled after 45 days - you'd only get 25% rebate. That's their starting point!!! If you use true rule of 78 on a 5 year policy and cancelled in Month 2 you get approx 85% back. (crude maths here - but you get the picture).

Basically if firms were applying rule of 78 FOS would have no issues. The fact is that they first take 50% or more away, and then apply rule of 78!!

Oooo this is very scary stuff, its quite complicated too.

marshallka

sportage1kia wrote: »

Hi there
I was just wondering if any other people were waiting to hear from HBOS regarding their PPI settlement and what the average waiting times are, pardon me but I know there is a backlog.
I received letter from Fos in August stating that HBOS were refunding payments as a gesture of goodwill and been advised since that it may take 6-8 weeks. Any reply would be appreciated.
Regards

I think that the banks are quite busy with complaints and other stuff really. Perhaps if you gave them a little nudge it may help or get back to the adjudicator maybe...

Hope you get it soon...:D

marshallka

dreamer33 wrote: »

Oooo this is very scary stuff, its quite complicated too.

Yes it is. I have gone for unfair rebate of the PPI being an unfair terms in consumer contracts regs 1999 as the rebate was calculated this way and I find this an unfair term making a totally unfair contract.

Don't know if I will get anywhere but I was told by the FOS that my complaint against the rebate we had to the insurer (compulsory jurisdiction) as they underwrote the policy and it was their terms that determined the rebate...

Termination of Cover and Benefit
If you cancel your policy before its normal expiry date you will receive a rebate of your premium provided you have not made a successful claim. Your insurers will not calculate your rebate proportionally, rather under the Rule of 78 set out in the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Thank you for your email regarding your above mentioned complaint. Your complaint has been passed to me to determine whether or not it is one which we can consider. From the papers in the file I understand that you would like us to investigate a complaint about the unfair rebate paid on your PPI policy.

Whilst I appreciate that your policy was sold by Firstplus in January 2000, and issues relating to rebate payments should be directed to the insurance company who underwrote the policy. I therefore suggest that you initially contact the insurance company as they provided the rebate, in order to raise your concerns with it. Details of the insurance company should be stated in your policy booklet.

The complaint handling procedures which are laid down by the Financial Services Authority, state that a business must be provided eight weeks from date the complaint is received, so that it has the opportunity to ‘put things right’, and investigate the complaint. The insurance company should therefore have eight weeks from date of receipt of your letter to look into the complaint and issue its final response letter on the matter. Consequently, if after receipt of its final response letter, you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of its investigations, you should contact us within six months from the date of its letter to refer your complaint to us.

On the basis that Firstplus are not responsible for the unfair rebate issues relating to your PPI policy, it would be inappropriate for me to investigate a complaint against it, and for that reason I will move to close the complaint unless I hear from you with any further comments that you feel would make a significant difference to the outcome by 6 November 2008.


After receiving this email I then telephoned and asked them to find out who the insurer was as I was confused as mine was supposedly a syndicate of insurers and they told me that they would find out from FIrstplus and ask the insurer for a final response and then look into my complaint. I don't know if I will recover any of the money they took but certainly better than nothing here.